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new Leica Camera idea: Square Format RF camera


jaques

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...makes your 43 look pretty conservative. ...

"... diagonal of about 43mm", I said. :-)

 

I think the edge of the square with the same diagonal as the 24x36mm would be about 30.59 mm.

 

Actually, I'm in favour of a square format RF camera. The ergonomics of the Leica M leave much to be desired when used in portrait orientation and most paper formats will not fit a 3:2 image. Neither will my screens.

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OK

 

As an aficionado of broken communication, I'm thoroughly enjoying this tread.

OK, I agree. 

But I regret to see, that the proposal of a round sensor of 43.2 mm is not taken serious.

Perhaps we should propose an octagonal sensor?

 

Most contributors seem to have worked with Rolleiflexes during their high school years, I suspect. Permanently nodding with their heads up and down, like in the old days.

Wasn´t left and right reversed? That could be introduced by firmware, of course. 

Jan

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Every couple of months someone suggests there should be a camera with a square sensor. And that is just this forum alone; I guess that every day, somebody, somewhere, in some forum, makes a suggestion to that effect. The likelihood of some vendor taking up the idea continues to be slim, though.

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I agree too. I'd love a circular sensor. Forget the artificial horizon, forget rotating the camera so that it knocks your hat off, forget L brackets for the tripod, forget predetermined formats influencing the final crop of your pictures.

Sticking with the rectangle is like self driving cars having a hardwired front and back; the friction of past practices slowing down progress.

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Thinking of how sensors are manufactured, a circular sensor wouldn't have technical/economical feasibility (circular sensors DO exist, indeed, but for scientific purposes)

This, apart the obvious fact that a circular sensor usable by 24x36 lenses (to say, with 29,4/30mm diameter, around) would need a body with proper dimensioning... and a circular LCD... :D .... so as the finder... (and in case of M-style frames into a OVF... :p )

Edited by luigi bertolotti
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Thinking of how sensors are manufactured, a circular sensor wouldn't have technical/economical feasibility (circular sensors DO exist, indeed, but for scientific purposes)

This, apart the obvious fact that a circular sensor usable by 24x36 lenses (to say, with 29,4/30mm diameter, around) would need a body with proper dimensioning... and a circular LCD... :D .... so as the finder... (and in case of M-style frames into a OVF... :p )

Luigi, that is the method sensors are produced now. They are cut out of large wafers. Remember those people in clean rooms walking like robots with large wafers in their hands.

Imagine, one would have a factory, that produces wafers with diagonal of say 45mm automatically. In a cheap way.

My former company produced building bricks for such factories. See SIMATIC S7 (perhaps now S9?).

 

A marketing argument for the rangefinder (Messsucher) is, that one can see somewhat more around the frame lines.

A round sensor with a round view finder delivers surroundings in every direction. One could decide the format in Photoshop, not at time of the exposure.

Of course the photographer can at home decide for a square format too.

 

The technics of today depend on cinematographers, that decided for a film with perforations on both sides. Calculate the loss of material from 35mm to 24mm, please.

That is all tradition, moving in small steps.

Of course with the format of Pathé of 9 mm with one perforation in the middle, Mr. Barnack could not have introduced the double half frame. :)

Jan

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Every couple of months someone suggests there should be a camera with a square sensor. And that is just this forum alone; I guess that every day, somebody, somewhere, in some forum, makes a suggestion to that effect. The likelihood of some vendor taking up the idea continues to be slim, though.

 

This is the first one I've noticed. Sorry to perpetuate a silly idea that has been done to death before. I'll shut up now. 

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  • 3 weeks later...

Just to stir the pot...

 

The Leica S has a sensor 30x45mm, diagonal 54mm (rounded!), which therefore is the diameter of the image circle.

 

The largest square which could be cropped from this is 38x38mm (rounded!), only slightly bigger than the 'desired' 36x36mm.

 

So, surely the solution is not to use the M lenses on the proposed RF, but those from the S (and you'll get a couple of mm for rise / fall / cross thrown in at no extra cost).

Edited by Richardgb
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Just to stir the pot...

 

The Leica S has a sensor 30x45mm, diagonal 54mm (rounded!), which therefore is the diameter of the image circle.

 

The largest square which could be cropped from this is 38x38mm (rounded!), only slightly bigger than the 'desired' 36x36mm.

 

So, surely the solution is not to use the M lenses on the proposed RF, but those from the S (and you'll get a couple of mm for rise / fall / cross thrown in at no extra cost).

 

It would hardly be RF.  The S lenses are AF, and not RF coupled. Sounds like an entire system. 

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Most contributors seem to have worked with Rolleiflexes during their high school years, I suspect. Permanently nodding with their heads up and down, like in the old days.

Wasn´t left and right reversed? That could be introduced by firmware, of course. 

Jan

 

I've got a few TLR's - they actually make great street photography cameras these days because (apart from some curiosity) people don't notice you using them.

 

Looking at the ground glass screen kind of makes you think a bit more about your composition. The reversed image isn't a problem when you are used to it - but it wouldn't be an issue with an LCD of course. 

 

I'd actually love a 'digital TLR' or rather more like a digital Hassy/Bronny. Imagine a square box, lens on one side and above it the LCD with a flip up Rolleiflex style hood/shade. It could be more the size of a baby Rollei than the 120 cameras. It could have an EVF built into the back and the flip up hood could also have the Rollei style 'sports finder'. Square format of course. 

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Hello Everybody,

 

One thought about a square-formatted-M that I think might be something for consideration is: Using Philipp's figure in Post #61 above, in this Thread, of 31mm square (approximately): That would mean a camera at least 7mm taller.

 

31mm - 24mm = 7mm.

 

That is the difference in height that would be added to the 24mm side of the current 24mm by 36mm sensor in order to build a camera body.

 

Using the same mathematics: That would mean a body that is 5mm narrower.

 

A new M shape that is both taller & narrower.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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  • 1 month later...

Arithmetic is all very well, but the lens is working its little heart out to provide a magic circle; why discard the four Ds? Such extravagance!

Another arithmetic can be calculated with APS-C (Leica Q!). The circle here measures around 30 mm.

The new SL (condensing vapor ware) will have full frame, a diameter of 43,2 mm.

 

With the use of Q lenses on the SL we could come a large step nearer to our beloved round sensor.

If - only if - the firmware designers would see the possibilities. Of course some other companies have to follow, for instance Adobe.

Jan

Edited by jankap
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