jaques Posted July 27, 2015 Share #1 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) wouldn't it be cool- if Leica made a new RF digital M mount lens camera with a squre format? I assume that M lenses would work fine with a sensor measuring 36 x 36mm? I would be kindof a mid-medium format camera. You can shoot glorious squares then crop horizontal or vertical if you like.... 3 classic formats in one. All you old Leica M lenses would now utilise their full 36 x 36mm potential... I know it will never happen- but wouldn't it be a great camera? They could make a huge square RF with a larger than normal RF patch... Or a standard but squared RF and a centrally located HUGE evf. As for megapixels maybe make it less- but larger pixels. My hasselblad CWD 503 back was only 16mp but the IQ was really outstanding- though the high ISO was very limited. Edited July 27, 2015 by jaques 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 27, 2015 Posted July 27, 2015 Hi jaques, Take a look here new Leica Camera idea: Square Format RF camera. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Exodies Posted July 27, 2015 Share #2 Posted July 27, 2015 Yes! +99 Or even better, a circular sensor. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 27, 2015 Share #3 Posted July 27, 2015 I don't think that Leica M lenses will normally cover an image area of 36x36; the normal format (24x36) has a diagonal of about 43mm, the larger format would be about 51mm. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) i am a luddite in such matters- but I would have thought the image circle of the M lens would contain a square of exactly 36mm x 36mm? What does the diagonal width of the square matter? Edited July 27, 2015 by jaques Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 27, 2015 Share #5 Posted July 27, 2015 Every lens makes a circular image. The Leica M lenses are designed such that they make a good circular image with a diameter of about 43mm. You can fit an oblong of 24x36mm into that circle. You can not fit a square of 36x36mm into that circle. Just try it with a compass and a ruler. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 27, 2015 Share #6 Posted July 27, 2015 The square would be about 30mm. But a 43mm circle would be exquisite. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Just try it with a compass and a ruler. I'll take your word for it ;-) What is 'compass and ruler'? Is there an app for that? I thought those were just some old Masonic occult nonsense... ha ha. if it was a 36x36mm sensor- would it matter much? Just a bit of extra 'mood' vignetting and edge softness with some lenses? Or would a square format camera have to be affectively a 'crop sensor'? whatever the sensor size- who else want this camera? Edited July 27, 2015 by jaques Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenInTime Posted July 27, 2015 Share #8 Posted July 27, 2015 I'll take your word for it ;-) What is 'compass and ruler'? Is there an app for that? I thought those were just some old Masonic occult nonsense... ha ha. if it was a 36x36mm sensor- would it matter much? Just a bit of extra 'mood' vignetting and edge softness with some lenses? Look through the MTF graphs that are published on Leica's webpages - you want to extend from 21mm to 25.4mm radius. A lot of the lenses e.g. 50mm Summilux fall off the cliff around 20mm radius. ( here is a link as the new website is appallingly bad , with most content hidden under in line tabs http://us.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-M/M-Lenses/Summilux-M-50mm-f-1.4-ASPH/Downloads ) Those that don't falloff in resolution will likely run into mechanical vignetting. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2015 Share #9 Posted July 27, 2015 With a 50mm lens on a digi-M (or the film Ms since the M-4P) one has the frames of the 75mm in the viewfinder to know how an immage cropped to a square looks like. The vertical limits are the 50mm frame, the lateral ones are the little 75mm marks. Using a film body with a custom 0.58 viewfinder, one can put a 24mm lens on and the frame selector to 35mm. This provides the lateral limits of a square from the 24mm lens, the vertical limits being about all that's in the window. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pop Posted July 27, 2015 Share #10 Posted July 27, 2015 With a 50mm lens on a digi-M (or the film Ms since the M-4P) one has the frames of the 75mm in the viewfinder to know how an immage cropped to a square looks like. The vertical limits are the 50mm frame, the lateral ones are the little 75mm marks. How clever! That didn't occur to me. Thanks for pointing it out. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 27, 2015 Share #11 Posted July 27, 2015 Commercial disaster, sales in the dozens I should think. I used 6x6 tlrs all my professional life, and I can only remember one square print, that was for a record cover (and actually taken on a half plate camera). tlrs were square becase its virtually impossible to turn them round to do a vertical, try it with a 16 on kit sometime. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 27, 2015 Share #12 Posted July 27, 2015 The M8 gave us the benefit of discovering this square cropping. (50mm using the 75 frames as horizontal limits and 24mm with the ones for the 35). Due to the crop factor all external view-finders since the M8 have that, too. The 21 finder with the 21mm lens on has the lateral limits of a 28mm for a square crop in the same finder. The 18mm finder has the inner frame built-in for the 24mm (with the lateral limits for a square). The 24mm lens as before mentioned the ones taht fit the 35mm. And tweeking the frame selector somewhere between 90mm and 135mm (disregarding the exterior 28mm and 35mm frames - or better still: on a 0.85 film body) one could have the same effect for a short-medium tele. A new marketing strategy: M-Leica, the cool Hipstamatic camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 27, 2015 Share #13 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) wouldn't it be cool- if Leica made a new RF digital M mount lens camera with a squre format? I assume that M lenses would work fine with a sensor measuring 36 x 36mm? I would be kindof a mid-medium format camera. You can shoot glorious squares then crop horizontal or vertical if you like.... 3 classic formats in one. All you old Leica M lenses would now utilise their full 36 x 36mm potential... Just because a lens covers a rectangle's long side does not mean it will cover a square of the same dimension. Edited July 27, 2015 by pico Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 27, 2015 Share #14 Posted July 27, 2015 The lenses provide a circle. Why not capture all of it? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 27, 2015 Share #15 Posted July 27, 2015 Commercial disaster, sales in the dozens I should think. I used 6x6 tlrs all my professional life, and I can only remember one square print, that was for a record cover (and actually taken on a half plate camera). tlrs were square becase its virtually impossible to turn them round to do a vertical, try it with a 16 on kit sometime. Gerry Hasselblad once made a 4.5x6cm back in vertical orientation. I guess editors could not flip a slide on its side. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share #16 Posted July 27, 2015 I had one of them- shoots 16 shots to a roll instead of 12- the standard horizontal A16 version was more useful- still have one. It is a very pleasing format. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaques Posted July 27, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted July 27, 2015 (edited) Just because a lens covers a rectangle's long side does not mean it will cover a square of the same dimension. 36mm-square.gif thanks for posting that Pico. Seeing the circle like that- I imagine the far edges wouldn't necessarily be that bad would they? It can't be much worse than whats already in the exteme corners could it? And I suppose some lenses would actually have some resolution to spare outside the standard image circle? Would probably look awesome anyhow... the affect. Sales might not be high- but then the Monochrom or M260 sales are probably not that high either... Lot of folks love the square format- not just TLR folks- hasselblad folks too. Edited July 27, 2015 by jaques Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted July 27, 2015 Share #18 Posted July 27, 2015 I had one of them- shoots 16 shots to a roll instead of 12- the standard horizontal A16 version was more useful- still have one. It is a very pleasing format. Actually the vertical 645 got 12 pics to the roll of 120. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter H Posted July 27, 2015 Share #19 Posted July 27, 2015 If my arithmetic is correct, (a square within the circle of 43mm diameter would give an area of about 924mm2, compared with 864mm2 for a 24x36 rectangle) the maximum square that would comfortably fit the image circle of M lenses would be a shade over 30x 30mm. That could be nice to work with I think. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 27, 2015 Share #20 Posted July 27, 2015 Hasselblad once made a 4.5x6cm back in vertical orientation. I guess editors could not flip a slide on its side. I didn't know that! I've used the normal A16 happily. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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