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Summarit kit


Robert M Poole

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Hello,

 

I seem to be posting all over the place at the moment trying to find the perfect Leica combination for my budget. I want to spend about £3000 on a lens and body.

 

My first idea was m6 plus three lenses, before making the leapi bought an old Olympus 35sp which confirmed that I like shooting with a rangefinder but enjoy developing less than I thought.

 

Next was the idea to buy the new Q which seemed like a good option but... Is it really a Leica? I know it is and I know the results are fantastic but the autofocus etc makes me feel like I'm handing everything over to Computer...

 

Next I thought used m9 and a used 50mm this would be the same sort of price. I had a play with an m9 and 35mm and enjoyed it.

 

Then I saw the offer on the M-E £4100 for the 50mm and 75mm plus body. Now this is about £1000 more than I want to and could spend but I had a thought, could I buy the kit then sell the 75mm as new? How much would I realistically get back? Is this the best deal out there?

 

As you can see I'm very confused at the moment!

 

Rob

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I am unfamiliar with market pricing.   If you buy retail, you will lose value instantly.  Also you will be inexperienced in assessing condition which is what sets the price.  

 

Q has a fixed lens, 28 mm no less.  35 & 50 are just using smaller sensor area.

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Consider renting to aid in your decision.

 

May I ask what types of photography you prefer?  Landscapes, streets, nature, family, the list of options is long.  Have you decided on a preferred focal length?

 

The comment on new purchases of digital gear is dead-on.  Expect to lose 1/3 of the current market value every 3 years.  There does seem to be somewhat of a floor on older digital Leicas around 1/3 of the original MSRP.

 

You may wish to look around for a CPO M-E if that model would serve you well.  Kenmore in the U.S. had several at $3000, but these seem to be dried up now.  Still, it would be worth a query to a Leica Gallerie store to see if they can procure one for you around that price.

 

The M8 is another great option for getting your feet wet.  I would add a 28/2.8 for a 37.3mm effective focal length.  The M8, while only 10 megapixels, is still a publication-worthy machine, and its B&W capabilities are second only to the monochrome in my eyes.  The creative option of shooting B&W IR is also available.  A nice best should be around $1500, a 28/2.8-III around $800, and a UV/IR filter around $100.  That's $2400, well under your target budget.  You should be able to get most $1200-1500 back out of the M8 if you upgrade later.  Just be sure to check on the back screen, as that is the only non-repairable component.

 

Have fun.

Eric

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The strength of the M models is their use with wide to normal lenses. I find 75 to be at the long end of what I use a rangefinder for, so I'm hoppy with my cheap Voigtlander for that focal length. I mainly use 35 and 50 on my M models, and 35 is my most used on the M9. (50 on film)

I've changed from 35 Summicrons to a 35 Summarit on my M9, and find it a very pleasing combination. The 35 field of view fits how I see most images, and the M9/Summarit image quality holds up well when cropped (and is handier than changing lenses).

I'd suggest used M9 and 35 Summarit f2.5 (instead of the latest 2.4 model) as a low risk way of finding if the M works for you. Buying used you could recover the cost if you find a rangefinder isn't for you.

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Consider renting to aid in your decision.

 

May I ask what types of photography you prefer? Landscapes, streets, nature, family, the list of options is long. Have you decided on a preferred focal length?

 

The comment on new purchases of digital gear is dead-on. Expect to lose 1/3 of the current market value every 3 years. There does seem to be somewhat of a floor on older digital Leicas around 1/3 of the original MSRP.

 

You may wish to look around for a CPO M-E if that model would serve you well. Kenmore in the U.S. had several at $3000, but these seem to be dried up now. Still, it would be worth a query to a Leica Gallerie store to see if they can procure one for you around that price.

 

The M8 is another great option for getting your feet wet. I would add a 28/2.8 for a 37.3mm effective focal length. The M8, while only 10 megapixels, is still a publication-worthy machine, and its B&W capabilities are second only to the monochrome in my eyes. The creative option of shooting B&W IR is also available. A nice best should be around $1500, a 28/2.8-III around $800, and a UV/IR filter around $100. That's $2400, well under your target budget. You should be able to get most $1200-1500 back out of the M8 if you upgrade later. Just be sure to check on the back screen, as that is the only non-repairable component.

 

Have fun.

Eric

I shoot everything really www.Flickr.com/rmpoole

I'm relatively new to photography having only started taking a keen interest a couple of years ago and so I'm playing and learning all the time.

 

I used an m9 last week with a 35mm and found myself cropping which with the full frame sensor isn't that much of a problem I guess. Looking through my Flickr pages I seem to use 18mm/23mm/55mm which is the two ends of my zoom and my Fuji x100 in the middle so full frame equivalent I guess is 27mm/35mm/80mm so I guess I perhaps would use the 75mm more than I thought and maybe the focal length of the Q isn't too far off what I want!!

 

I know that selling used you lose money but if I bought the M-E kit and sold the 75mm without even opening it I'd get nearer the original value surely?

 

Used is obviously an option but the deals on the M-E seem too good to be true. I've just seen as well that you can pick one up in Europe even cheaper...

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Why not get the kit and enjoy both lenses? The 75 Summarit is a fantastic lens. Or, sell the 50 and get a 35 Summarit to pair with the 75, giving you an extremely versatile and high quality two lens kit that will cover about 80% of what folks would ever want to photograph.

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Why not get the kit and enjoy both lenses? The 75 Summarit is a fantastic lens. Or, sell the 50 and get a 35 Summarit to pair with the 75, giving you an extremely versatile and high quality two lens kit that will cover about 80% of what folks would ever want to photograph.

Cost!
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I think this kit is pretty good value at £4,100, however I would argue against buying it to sell a lens.

 

The f2.5 lenses are now discontinued and are available new still at a discount. Have a look at the new prices and also the second hand prices and bear in mind that harrison cameras has a new M-E for £3,299 and second hand mint ones are available for £2,750 from main dealers.

 

A budget of £3,000 is quite reasonable for an M9 and a lens if you look around but might be pushing it for an M-E and Leica lens.

 

Alternatively for £4k you could also consider a used M240 and a single lens.

 

choices choices

 

Personally if you have a budget of £3k try to work within it rather then blowing it all at once. I would also recommend you get a decent lens to ensure you realize the quality that Leica can achieve. Recommended 50mm lenses new or second hand in your budget:

1. Leica Summarit 2.5 or 2.4

2. Leica Summicron (latest or last version)

3. Zeiss 50mm f2 (latest)

 

Best rgds

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I bought the same kit in March 2015 and I love it. Also purchased the 35mm 2.5 at a good price new. All three less than a new 240.

Very satisfied and with the new 'old' sensor available for warranty problems I believe its a good setup.

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New with passport

 

yeah. pretty good.

 

Lets compare it to a dealer M9 in pretty good nick, but with no Leica guarantee (although Leica will update the sensor free if it corrodes. Although note this takes around 3 months at the present), around £2,200. Then a second hand 50mm f2.5 summarit, say £799, thats £3,000.

 

so for £500 you are getting mint condition, a 2 year guarantee, free Lightroom 6 and 6 months free LFI magazine :)

 

note FYI the dealers I like to deal with are:

 

www.harrisoncameras.co.uk

www.ffordes.com

www.reddotcameras.co.uk

www.richardcaplan.co.uk

leicastoremanchester.com/

www.apertureuk.com (not an authorised dealer but good for second hand)

 

The prices can vary a but depending on which dealer has most stock to move. At the moment the prices seem to have moved in the wrong direction but perhaps they will move downwards towards the end of the year.

 

Don't miss out Zeiss lenses as they are a fraction of the price of Leica but absolutely excellent. Voigtlander also make some good lenses.

Edited by colonel
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Sounds like a good deal then. Next thing... I know there isn't much difference between the 9 and M-E but is there any reason to go for one or the other,?

 

Thanks everyone for their help so far.

1. Colour preference (personal taste)

2. M9 has frame line lever and USB port - missed out on M-E but frankly not many people use them

3. M-E is newer thus even second hand you are likely to get a much newer body with a chance it's still in guarantee (Leica guarantees are fully transferable).

 

Otherwise they are the same

 

Rgds

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Does the frame line selector mean you can't use old glass (not that I have any)

No

 

It's to give a preview of the frame lines for a different focal lengths

 

So for example if you are using a 50mm lens the camera will be showing 50mm frame lines. If you want a sneak preview of what the 35mm ones would look like, say, then it shows you.

 

It doesn't actually change the view you are seeing, just the superimposition of the white frame lines.

 

If you are an experienced user you can mostly guess this, but some people like the facility. Others like the metal button on the front as they think it looks more retro ;)

 

For me I never use it.

 

More info on frame lines see here, or download M9/M-E manual to take a look:

http://www.tallentsblog.com/tallent/Blog/Entries/2011/10/9_Leica_rangefinder_focusing_system.html

 

Rgds

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A couple of points to consider........The M9/ME sensors can suffer from 'corrosion' - see threads on the subject in this forum. Leica are replacing the sensors even if out of warranty but it's a hassle you might not want in the future. They have also apparently developed a new replacement sensor which should cure the problem, but for now are still fitting the old type as replacement (I think the new one is still being tested).

 

If your budget is tight maybe you would be better off buying an M8 to start with. It's a 1.3x crop sensor and you need to use UVIR filters, but if you're starting with one lens that's a minor issue. You could buy an M8 and lens for anything from about £1K upwards depending on condition etc., and your choice of lens.

 

The LCD on the M8 can no longer be repaired by Leica though, but if it did fail they will offer an 'upgrade' to a later model M, so it could be a good potential path for you either way! 

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