PeterSchlicht Posted July 20, 2015 Share #1 Posted July 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Printring gurus, I just received my new Epson SC-P800 17" printer. Both hardware installation and installing the drivers on macbook went super smooth. Jobs are transferred from macbook to printer via wifi. All very easy. My macbook is old but the screen is calibrated with an i1Display. I believe I got the hang on b&w printing so far, the results on different matte and glossy papers are stunning in terms of resolution, detail and tones. Color prints are challenging for me though. Particularly the red tones and thus the skin tones are just not right yet. I am using a Leica M9 with Summilux 50 Asph and Elmarit 28 Asph. I have three sets of different A4 Hahnemühle papers, glossy fine art, matte fine art textured and matte fine art smooth. Hahnemühle sends the equivalent paper type settings for the SC-P800 with its icc profiles. I downloaded all the necessary profiles for the different papers. So, here is what I do: Process the image in LR5 Enable soft proofing and choose the paper profile for the paper I intend to use, e.g. HFA_EpsSC-P800_PK_FABaryta.icc Click "simulate paper and ink" Using the compare functionality "Y" I adjust the soft proof copy so that it looks close to the initial processed image (unbelievable how much contrast and pop is lost when looking at the soft proof...) Once the soft proof copy looks OK, I move to the Print module in LR5 setting the following: position the image on the paper size print resolution = unchecked print sharpening = standard media type = glossy profile = e.g. HFA_EpsSC-P800_PK_FABaryta.icc intend = perceptual print adjustment = unchecked On the printer I insert the paper and set the paper type = Epson Premium Luster, which is recommended by Hahnemühle for PK type papers. In LR5 print module I click "Printer" and set "Paper type" = Photo Glossy Paper and "Quality" = Best Hitting "Print" actions the printer So, what's the problem? On the printed paper skin tones are far too red and/or magenta, reds in general are very difficult to handle. I adjusted the red saturations down on the soft proof but that resulted only in kind of different hues, etc... Otherwise the prints are tack sharp, resolutions are perfect, contrast is good, etc. Skins, especially people's faces, though turn the print to trash. What do I do wrong? Any ideas? Thanks a lot in advance, Peter 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 20, 2015 Posted July 20, 2015 Hi PeterSchlicht, Take a look here Printing using Epson Surecolor P800 & Hahnemühle papers. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted July 20, 2015 Share #2 Posted July 20, 2015 (edited) Lots of variables to consider in a color calibrated workflow. First, check the obvious functional aspects such as doing a nozzle check to ensure all inks are flowing properly. I prefer using a dedicated screen such as Eizo or NEC to work with colors, along with generating custom profiles for my specific printer and paper. Well calibrated monitors are not created equally, and can be key to a color managed workflow. Paper choices, and paper settings, can also generate very different results. For my color work, I prefer Ilford Gold Fibre Silk or Canson Infinity Baryta Photographique, both glossy type papers that handle colors well. I can't speak to your choices, but matte or textured papers could be problematic with some color tones. Regardless of the paper you choose, however, don't be afraid to try different settings such as paper type or rendering intent. And be sure to turn off color management to let LR manage the colors, not the printer, once you've used a custom profile. Make sure, too, that you're using soft proofing the right way…..there are various settings and tools to consider….http://tv.adobe.com/watch/whats-new-in-lightroom-4/soft-proofing-images/ You should be able to determine if there are any out of gamut colors for your monitor and/or printer. Other free LR videos from Julieanne Kost may also prove useful. Jeff Edited July 20, 2015 by Jeff S 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
peterbengtson Posted July 21, 2015 Share #3 Posted July 21, 2015 (edited) I have a 4900 and have had 3800s but I assume the software is similar as all Epson Printers I have used have been. In the print setup properties, Mode=custom then no color adjustment. Set the profile in Lightroom print module under color management. If you do not disable color adjustment in the printer you have two fighting profiles. Edited July 21, 2015 by peterbengtson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 21, 2015 Share #4 Posted July 21, 2015 Yes, as I mentioned. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 21, 2015 Share #5 Posted July 21, 2015 Jeff has provided great info for you there as a start point for troubleshooting. It is a complex subject.Regarding your monitor, even though calibrated there are considerable limitations when you soft proof or compare a test print directly to your screen.for examples: your screen may natively display a contrast ratio of for example 1000+:1 whereas your papers would be capable of perhaps 100-150:1Your screen unless a high end Eizo, NEC etc cannot show you directly a larger colour space than even sRGB. Your camera and your printer may cover nearly all of AdobeRGB. That means what ever tones you see are squashed down to fit the much smaller space. sRGB is likely appropriate for commercial printing processes though.Good luck. You will get it nailed down and then it's a case of check your settings every time you change anything (including updates of your software) 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSchlicht Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share #6 Posted July 25, 2015 Thank you, gents, for your advice and sorry for only coming back today... busy work week... I suspect the colour managements of LR and the printer are fighting against each other and I guess the printer is winning. The problem might be that my driver is not properly installed. I tried to install it various times. I can see the printer under system preferences (fig 1) and also can send jobs via my wifi network. However, I cannot see the advanced setting in the print menu (fig 2). I also don't see the Epson Printer Utility (fig 3). Is there any way other than the online wizard installer for the Epson? Btw, Jeff, I watched all your videos from luminous-landscape, "From Camera to Print and Screen" and the previous ones. Cheers, Peter Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/248049-printing-using-epson-surecolor-p800-hahnem%C3%BChle-papers/?do=findComment&comment=2860245'>More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 25, 2015 Share #7 Posted July 25, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Btw, Jeff, I watched all your videos from luminous-landscape, "From Camera to Print and Screen" and the previous ones. No you didn't; those would be from Jeff Schewe, but thanks for confusing me with a really smart guy, who would clear up your issues in minutes (he writes books on this stuff, too). Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 25, 2015 Share #8 Posted July 25, 2015 Hi I notice you have connected your printer via Wi Fi. I have virtually the same installation as yourself except using an iMac . I have connected my printer using a decent quality USB cable. Not sure it will make a great deal of differance but possible less chance of problems. Thanks for starting the thread, it is becoming very interesting. BrianP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sanyasi Posted July 25, 2015 Share #9 Posted July 25, 2015 I work in a calibrated environment, using Eizo monitor built-in calibration tool. What I see on the screen is generally what comes out of the printer. Having said that, if I do have a color photograph of a person, on occasion, the face has too much orange or red when printed. I suspect that is a perceptional issue, a lit screen vs a piece of paper. With that in mind, sometimes I simply need to make an adjustment in the saturation and lightness settings to get the print right. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 25, 2015 Share #10 Posted July 25, 2015 However, I cannot see the advanced setting in the print menu (fig 2). I also don't see the Epson Printer Utility (fig 3). To access advanced b/w mode, you must first choose 'managed by printer' in the color management options drop-down menu, then go into print settings and choose advanced. Does the Print Utility not appear in your 'Finder'? Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSchlicht Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted July 25, 2015 To access advanced b/w mode, you must first choose 'managed by printer' in the color management options drop-down menu, then go into print settings and choose advanced. Does the Print Utility not appear in your 'Finder'? Jeff Jeff, neither the print utility does appear nor can I access the advanced settings. I already downloaded again the driver and all went smooth during installation. I just don't see these options. Thanks. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 25, 2015 Share #12 Posted July 25, 2015 (edited) I just don't see these options. And you've chosen managed by printer? Jeff Edited July 25, 2015 by Jeff S Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSchlicht Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted July 25, 2015 And you've chosen managed by printer? Jeff I tried all options for color management, choosing the Hahnemühle printer profile or Managed by Printer... in both cases I only see what's in the above snapshot Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 25, 2015 Share #14 Posted July 25, 2015 Hard to tell by screen shots, since once you've chosen Managed by Printer, you'll of course want to go into Print Settings, which is not shown. Also unclear what's behind your presets and unchecked boxes, e.g., Black and White. But I guess you've checked it all. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterSchlicht Posted July 25, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted July 25, 2015 Hard to tell by screen shots, since once you've chosen Managed by Printer, you'll of course want to go into Print Settings, which is not shown. Also unclear what's behind your presets and unchecked boxes, e.g., Black and White. But I guess you've checked it all. Jeff Jeff, I had the AirPrint driver selected under system preferences. That was the problem and the reason why I didn't see all the options in the print settings. Now I'm able to choose my paper profile under Print > Color Matching > Color Sync > HFA_EpsSC-P800_PK_FABaryta.icc. Thanks to Howard M and Mark Segal from luminous-landscape forum who pointed me to the solution. Cheers, Peter Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 25, 2015 Share #16 Posted July 25, 2015 Yeah, it helps to choose the driver you've installed. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Exodies Posted July 25, 2015 Share #17 Posted July 25, 2015 So are you still using WiFi to connect to the printer, just not the simplified AirPrint interface? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 25, 2015 Share #18 Posted July 25, 2015 You have left me behind with the additional complexities with printing via Wi-Fi and my imaging computer has Windows 8.1.My printer is the 3880 as well.The fundamental important issue though is that you want No Colour Adjustment in the printer dialogue and then the installed driver profile selected in your Lightroom dialogue. I could screenshot those if it would help?When you do that, using a provided or custom profile your Print Review (if option selected) will look completely wrong and you ignore it. If you are printing using the Epson colour management options, including advanced BW modes then you will be in conflict with what you choose in the Lightroom Print dialogue. I'm not saying that using the Epson options won't work, they are designed to give good results, only that you need to choose one method or the other to avoid "double profiling". Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted July 25, 2015 Share #19 Posted July 25, 2015 You have left me behind with the additional complexities with printing via Wi-Fi and my imaging computer has Windows 8.1. My printer is the 3880 as well. The fundamental important issue though is that you want No Colour Adjustment in the printer dialogue and then the installed driver profile selected in your Lightroom dialogue. I could screenshot those if it would help? When you do that, using a provided or custom profile your Print Review (if option selected) will look completely wrong and you ignore it. If you are printing using the Epson colour management options, including advanced BW modes then you will be in conflict with what you choose in the Lightroom Print dialogue. I'm not saying that using the Epson options won't work, they are designed to give good results, only that you need to choose one method or the other to avoid "double profiling". Geoff….he resolved the issue…see above. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted July 26, 2015 Share #20 Posted July 26, 2015 Seems like it Jeff, yes, It's just very unclear to me all of the workflow used . Not to worry, just doesn't look like my workflow from my understanding of what was discussed. It's all fun now until someone updates their Ps/LR and random settings mutations set in. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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