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The various Leica "typ" designations


reynoldsyoung

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Forgive me, I have been away from my Leica M9 since my eyesight and manual focus began parting ways.  I have enjoyed my Fuji X-T1 and X100T for years now...but,  WOW...6/10/15...the Leica Q!!  I ordered one on 6/13 and an anxiously awaiting its arrival.

 

Would someone be kind enough to help me understand the "typ" designations (Typ 116 for the Q) now given these great Leica machines?  Totally lost there as to what they mean, if anything.

 

Many thanks for some education!

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Would someone be kind enough to help me understand the "typ" designations (Typ 116 for the Q) now given these great Leica machines?  Totally lost there as to what they mean, if anything.

 

 

 

The resounding silence to your question speaks volumes.

 

Perhaps Leica think customers just point at things and grunt when in a Leica boutique so identifying names for cameras have no relevance, but selling camera's by the part number and technical designation is baffling for long term Leica users and impossible for casual browsers looking for a new toy. It is also hard to get a sense of joie de vivre into a part number, and it's turning Leica into a dour manufacturer and uninspiring shopping experience,

 

"Look Darling, I just bought a Type 116!"

"But don't you have one of those?"

"No, that's a Type 114"

"Well it looks the same to me!"

 

 

Steve

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I think Leica wants customers to see a rather lean and simple set of products: C, M, Q, S, T, X and so on. However, for internal communication between dealers and the manufacturer it might be important that they can tell this year's M from last year's M, and that's where the type numbers might come in handy.

 

Still, I don't think dealers will object to customers grunting when they can not remember a simple character designation or a three digit type number.

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That helps....perhaps a distinguishing number to separate the improvement in similar models.  I was in conversation with a dealer yesterday and he clearly used the entire designator  "Leica Q, Typ 116" like it had become the norm.

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However, for internal communication between dealers and the manufacturer it might be important that they can tell this year's M from last year's M, and that's where the type numbers might come in handy.

 

 

Shame they don't think communication between the factory and potential customers isn't important! I mean, the M240 has now been superseded by the M246 hasn't it? 

 

Leica reckon they want to take a leaf out of Porsche's book and all M's for instance are the equivalent of the generic 911 line with next generation models designated with a type number, so 997 to 998 for example. Well already Leica have gone wrong because a M246 is not the next generation on from the M240 is it? 

 

How much clearer would it have been if the M240 was the M10 which would then make the M246 an M10/Monochrom? This is a descriptive and truly linear way to describe models, not as exists an apologists excuse for communication between dealer and factory.

 

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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Forgive me, I have been away from my Leica M9 since my eyesight and manual focus began parting ways….

 

...Would someone be kind enough to help me understand the "typ" designations (Typ 116 for the Q) now given these great Leica machines?  Totally lost there as to what they mean, if anything.

 

 

Best that you don't even ask about the differences between an M9-P, an MP and an M-P.

 

 

Jeff

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Well already Leica have gone wrong because a M246 is not the next generation on from the M240 is it?

 

I think that point is moot since there is neither an M240 nor an M246. You can not make Leica responsible for any nick names you invent by yourself and any confusion resulting from those.

 

There is, however, a Leica M (Typ 240) and a Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246), as can be seen on their web site. There is at the moment but one M Monochrom shown, and you can tell which one this is as it's  disambiguated by its type number.

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I think that point is moot since there is neither an M240 nor an M246. You can not make Leica responsible for any nick names you invent by yourself and any confusion resulting from those.

 

There is, however, a Leica M (Typ 240) and a Leica M Monochrom (Typ 246), as can be seen on their web site. There is at the moment but one M Monochrom shown, and you can tell which one this is as it's  disambiguated by its type number.

 

If Leica users call it an 'M240' that is the fault of Leica in making a product that has no logical descriptive lineage. I look foreword to you using 'Leica M (Typ 240)' ( and etc.) in every post and calling people out for using 'M240' from now on.

 

I appreciate you are on the payroll, but that puts you into a minority from most people who find Leica's naming system infuriating, baffling, and without a clear lineage or context. Be careful what you defend, you can't simply say 'M240' anymore, nor any other abbreviation, you are stuck with your absurd longhand and controlling descriptions of the product, I mean look at what you just said above, it amounts to 'you can't say that'. Well to most people on the Forum an M240 is an M240, not as you wish to enforce and 'M (Typ 240)'. If it was an M10 nobody would be confused or need to use another product description because M10 would be the full product description!

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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There may be one or two small misunderstandings here.

 

First, I am on no payroll whatsoever; indeed, this forum is entirely independent of Leica, and I am entirely independent of the forum.

 

Second, Leica's nomenclature does not matter to me, and I neither accuse nor defend Leica in this matter. I simply point out  that the terms "M240" and "M246" are not in use by Leica and, hence, that any confusion associated with using those terms can not be attributed to Leica.

 

However, I do indeed try to keep to Leica's nomenclature because I think that most conversations are best understood if at least the terms being used do not lead to misunderstanding. However, I rarely if ever call someone out for using a wrong term. But then, in terms of the Internet and this forum I don't think the new nomenclature very useful.

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I simply point out  that the terms "M240" and "M246" are not in use by Leica and, hence, that any confusion associated with using those terms can not be attributed to Leica.

 

 

Of course it can be attributed to Leica, they have a marketing or strategy department don't they? Does nobody sit down and think about the way product names will be colloquialized in common language? It's the very reason companies such as BMW have a colour called 'A61' but for convenience and clarity have a name their customers can relate to in calling it 'Crimson Red'. To be technically pedantic they could of course just have stuck to the paint code, but people would still have said they want a red car.

 

Anyway you forgot the product code, vital if you are to be pedantic and tell people they are wrong. I and many others would in our lack of education and ignorance call said M camera a 'silver M240', but presumably for clarity you will call it an 'M (Typ 240) 10771'. I look forward to the clarity this imparts when answering the vital question 'should I get a 10770 or 10771 M (Typ 240)?'

 

Steve

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  • 2 weeks later...

I have to admit I have little sympathy for the plight of those who stubbornly insist on using model names of their own invention, only to be thoroughly confounded by those invented names.

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Totally lost there as to what they mean, if anything.

There is no hidden meaning. Within the same category (like M, M-P, M-E, M Monochrom etc.) a higher number indicates a newer model, but otherwise the numbers carry no significance whatsoever.

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I expect the test will come when Leica release the replacement of the M240, or to be pedantic M (Typ 240). I along with many others suspected the M240 was so called because of the 24mp sensor, so what will the successor be called? I would have thought M (Typ 360) (or a number that reflected the sensor specification), but that number would have significance. So lets hope for the sake of clarity it isn't called the M360 (sorry M (Typ 360)), because that would leave us with a naming system where for some models the numbers do have significance, and some not.

Edited by 250swb
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I think the original idea was that - having used up single digits with the M9 - Leica paused for reflection (perhaps not enough) on what they wanted to call the camera following the M9. Go into double digits? In his sci-fi novel The Sands of Mars, (written in the era of the Leica screw-mount cameras) Arthur C. Clarke mentions a character using a Leica XXIII. Eventually, Leica would have gotten up to M18s and M25s - and perhaps that way madness lies.

 

Instead, they chose, going forward, to simply designate the lines with a single letter. Which is graphically cleaner, won't tend to fill up the front of the camera over the years (especially with variants like a ".2" or "-P"), and cheaper (marginally) to engrave. But it does become a generic term - try to google, or search this forum, for "Leica M", hoping to get results only for the camera with a plain M on the front (the typ 240). You won't - you'll get every "M" camera since 1954. On the other hand, search for "M8.2" or "M9-P" and you will get the specific results you want.

 

Which leaves us using the strange, official-but-not-exactly-official "Typ" designation to differentiate, Check the "Leica Deals" ads at the bottom of the page (if you get them) - and every one for the current M lists it as an "M 240". We - as users - need to distinguish models as they progress. And "M (typ 240)" is a mouthful compared to "M3" or "M6."

 

Personally, I think Leica just jumped from one frying pan into another, and will eventually have to rethink this. Probably about the time they reach the sixth improved RGB model after the "typ 240/1/2/3/4/5" - and need to call it the M (typ 246). Ooops! Already used.

 

@250swb - not the first time Leica has use significant-but-not-significant numbering. The M3 ("Messsucher, 3 framelines") was followed by the M2 (still 3 frames), the M1 (two framelines), the M4 (Messsucher, 4 frames), the M5 (still 4 framelines) and the M4-P (six framelines), M6 (six frames) and M7 (six frames).

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There is no hidden meaning. Within the same category (like M, M-P, M-E, M Monochrom etc.) a higher number indicates a newer model, but otherwise the numbers carry no significance whatsoever.

 

Earlier I mentioned the quoted desire of Leica to follow a similar strategy to Porsche in their new type designations, and a conversation about work today opened my eyes. I don't usually pay attention to new cars, my work rarely even gets into the 1980's, but I did know the Porsche 911 (Typ 996) was followed by the Porsche 911 (Typ 997), which was in turn followed by the Porsche 911 (Typ 998). But blow me down, if the model that superseded the 998 isn't the Porsche 911 (Typ 991)!  So that makes everything clear :rolleyes:

 

Steve

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