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MM, post processing guidance


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Hi Chaps,

 

Well I've done it, I now own a MM (Original CCD sensor)  :)

 

I have started to read around and also had a little play with low light (One of the reasons for buying) and also compared in one scene my M9-P to MM in good light at base ISO. I am quite busy at the moment so would love some help with the starting position and what my next step might be to start to get to know.

 

My first down load using an 18mm to compare the MM to the M9-P using a landscape shot, was a surprise (All std settings for jpg's).

 

Using LR 4.4, the Monochrom jpg was the highest resolving, but did look a little over sharpened (Well quite a lot to my eyes), the B&W untouched M9-P DNG conversion was very similar in detail but less micro contrast and perhaps familiarity made it look more pleasing regarding detail resolution. The next was the Monochrom DNG, a LOT softer than either of the above two and of course lagging further behind the M9-P jpg

 

What I am really curious about is what might be going on with LR and DNG's. I rarely sharpen the M9 DNG's, have a jpg setting I use as base adjustment when I am being lazy as I set the M9-P for B&W JPG fine. I can and have sharpened the MM DNG files but I was really surprised how soft they are straight out of the camera with no adjustments ? How does this correlate to no Bayer and no adjusting algorithms ?

 

Any guidance regarding resolution and base settings would be greatly appreciated as I'd much rather spend my time shooting with it and experimenting with tonality and getting to know it rather than trying to understand why the DNG's are soft !

 

Many Thanks

 

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. I can and have sharpened the MM DNG files but I was really surprised how soft they are straight out of the camera with no adjustments ? How does this correlate to no Bayer and no adjusting algorithms ?

 

 

 

I'm not sure, partly it depends on the settings used for your JPEGs or M9 .dng files, but I suspect that so far you've been kidded by colour contrast and/or lower resolution that adds cruder edge effects that make an image appear sharper. Similar to people who say a lens is super sharp when what they are really looking at is contrast rather than resolution. Similar also to the way a low megapixel camera can look very crisp and sharp against a multi mega pixel wonder in a 5x7 print, it's because the jump between tones is a hard jump, making a hard edge, which kind of looks like sharpness but isn't.

 

I've been using an MM for a long time now and depending on the lens sharpening can help, but I can't imagine an 18mm lens is a very good test of sensor resolution, it doesn't really give an MM much to do so I'd say the M9 was still playing with colour contrast to fool you into thinking it was sharper.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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"Being a computer Nerd"... I've been experimenting with adding a Gamma curve to the M Monochrom DNG files, mapping from 14-bits to 16-bits. Using the extra two bits allows the curve to be applied without "collisions", two input values being "thrown together" by the output of the function.

 

Some ramblings here:

 

http://www.leicaplace.com/threads/1188/

 

Basically, Digital Sensors have a "linear response" to intensity. Film and Your eye have an "S" shaped curve, a "Gamma" function. From reading on the Internet, some authors state that Lightroom and Photoshop apply a gamma for interpolated files (Color DNG) but do not apply them for Linear DNG, as used by the M Monochrom.

 

Long story short: everyone develops their own style with this camera. The fastest way to play with different curves and effects is to get Silver Efex2, which came with the M Monochrom. You might check the "TAN" to see if a second download is available for your camera.

One example,

 

As Shot

 

18446173144_edfbf3c84d_b.jpgL1005240 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

 

Gamma Curve added:

 

18882443299_2d6f743323_b.jpgG1005240 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

I turn off Sharpening and Noise Reduction in Lightroom. Sometimes will use the clarity slider to 10%. But lately- Gamma Curve and Silver EFex2 Panatomic-X emulation seems good.

Edited by fiftyonepointsix
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Many thanks, I have silver efex2

 

Interesting article and thought regarding gamma curves, not being a programmer but having dealt with Projector settings and calibration I understand how gamma relates to some things

 

I guess this must be similar to the contrast slider in some ways ?

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It's more like "Curves" and "Tones" used to add an "S" for contrast. I'm not sure if the contrast slider is a stretch-type or curve-type function.

 

Silver Efex2: uses a Gamma curve to emulate that of the chosen emulsion. I was able to compute a Gamma curve very close to what it used for a few emulsions. I "needed to know" how it worked, which for me means writing code.

 

The M Monochrom stores an amazing amount of data. "transforming that data" into an image that suits you- might take some work, much like working in the darkroom with polycontrast filters.

 

One more example:

 

As Shot,

 

18213795198_2ed577d5d2_b.jpgStraight Export from DNG-14 by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

After Gamma curve and SEFX2 processing:

 

18213798870_5547c4a76b_b.jpgGamma 2 M1, + SEFX2 High-Structure Smooth by fiftyonepointsix, on Flickr

 

This camera is unique. Enjoy it, I have.

Edited by fiftyonepointsix
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I assume you mean that Silver Efex2 emulates a film gamma curve on top of an internally generated gamma curve from the camera ?

 

I assume that means that both are required ? Unless Silver Efex2 knows what had been done already ?

 

Silver Efex has no way of knowing what the contrast of the image is, so having a set Gamma Curve is a waste of time unless all your images are the same. Similarly what Silver Efex does is apply a typical curve for say Tri-X and then you need to adjust the settings so you get a pleasing image out of it. The default setting is only a starting point and only now and again will a preset look good 'out of the box'. So looking at the two landscape examples posted above then Curve or no Curve neither addresses the low contrast underexposed foreground. To sort that out in Silver Efex you need to use the Control Points and increase brightness and contrast of the foreground independently from the sky. In the darkroom you would do it by Dodging and Burning, but in Photoshop it is quicker to make a selection of the foreground and adjust the Curves/or Levels/or Brightness and Contrast to increase the foreground brightness and 'pop'.

 

The technical bit of post processing is easy in the sense it isn't hard to learn the controls because they are made to be easy to use. The hard bit is developing an opinion about your image before you start, so which part is too dark, which bit too light, which bit needs more or less contrast etc., and what do you want the image to convey. The MM responds to simple darkroom skills applied to the digital image, so rarely will a single universal adjustment be adequate to get the most out of an image.

 

Steve

Edited by 250swb
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I think I'll start with a blank canvas and start to get to know it, I think slight lazyness and familiarity with my M9-P (22k actuations) doesn't help.

 

Useful to know what the starting point is, I must find the time to subscribe to flickr or similar, I am quite busy at the moment at work (okay, okay what am I doing on the forum !!, I needed a break from spreadsheets and thinking !!!) and home with a house refurbishment.

 

Still need to bottom why the DNG was notably softer than the M9

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I assume you mean that Silver Efex2 emulates a film gamma curve on top of an internally generated gamma curve from the camera ?

 

I assume that means that both are required ? Unless Silver Efex2 knows what had been done already ?

The camera itself has a linear response, and stores the linear values in the DNG files. I wrote my own software to convert the 14-bit linear values to a 16-bit Gamma curve. After that- some I've also used SEFX-2. The rationale: I give it 16-bit values to start with. As stated, I'm experimenting and compare the DNG as out of the camera with those processed by my code. It's fun, self-admitted computer nerd.

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It seems strange to move this discussion out of the dedicated Monochrom forum. I thought that forum was to discuss techniques and issues particular to a Monochrome Digital camera. As it is, no one will be looking in the general post-processing section for discussions relevant to the M Monochrom and M246 since they have a dedicated forum.

 

The post processing that I have been using is unique to the linear-DNG files produced by the M Monochrom.

Edited by fiftyonepointsix
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