B&W PP

[Manoleica]

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Hi All, I do very little actual B&W, and even more rarey convert color to B&W.

I do though want better than Photo or Preview PP for my mono work.

Silver Efex Pro seems to be the best choice. So I have 2?'s, if I set my X1/XVario/240 to B&W Raw/DNG will SEPro be compatible? (2) how about after converting color JPEG to B&W and then using SEPro?

Wifey said my B&W images are somewhat disappointing!

I'm obliged & thankful for any advice offered.

[elgenper]

1)  No need to set the camera to B/W; SEP handles a colour image file just as well.  Besides, setting a camera to B/W only affects the jpeg; the raw file is always in colour anyhow.  (Setting to B/W may help while shooting, by allowing you to see the images as monochromes, but has nothing to do with PP).

 

2) A very bad idea, honestly.  As long as there is a raw, don´t use jpeg for PP.  If for some reason you have only colour jpeg files from a shoot, don´t convert them before SEP.

 

And wives... mine is always disappointed with my `masterpieces´.... 

Edited July 5, 2015 by elgenper

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[Manoleica]

1)  No need to set the camera to B/W; SEP handles a colour image file just as well.  Besides, setting a camera to B/W only affects the jpeg; the raw file is always in colour anyhow.  (Setting to B/W may help while shooting, by allowing you to see the images as monochromes, but has nothing to do with PP).

 

2) A very bad idea, honestly.  As long as there is a raw, don´t use jpeg for PP.  If for some reason you have only colour jpeg files from a shoot, don´t convert them before SEP.

 

And wives... mine is always disappointed with my `masterpieces´.... 

Many many thanks, great info & advice..Regards, L.

[Jeff S]

Yes, use DNG to maximize the data you're manipulating, to give the most flexibility…and to preserve options for future PP experimentation and/or software upgrades.

 

Regardless the PP software (or darkroom gear), the secret to success isn't in the software or the gear, and the hard part is not learning the techniques.  Rather, just like taking good photos, the toughest aspect is in having the discerning eye and judgment to decide when and where to do what…and to what degree.  Like the old joke about the patient complaining about the surgeon's bill, it's a dollar to make the cut, but twenty thousand dollars to know when, where and how much to cut.  Of course, one needs to first learn the basics, but the rest is mostly between the ears.

 

This takes time and practice, especially if you make prints, which is where the real benefits can be realized.  There are many more great photographers in the world than great printers; it takes a lot of time and practice.  And a great picture to start doesn't hurt….'seeing' the world in b/w also takes experience….it's not about turning a nice color photo into b/w.

 

In the meantime, there are plenty of resources around to assist….books, online tutorials, workshops, etc.  You might want to search prior discussions in the DPP forum.

 

Jeff

Edited July 5, 2015 by Jeff S

[dkmoore]

I highly recommend the google Nik suite as you will get many other powerful tools with SE Pro. Great editing software.

[algrove]

Often to begin seeing in B&W, try setting your LCD to B&W so you begin to see your images in B&W on the LCD at time of capture. Some cameras one can do this and perhaps others not so. Of course this assumes you do not have an MM.

[CharlesL]

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B&W post processing is an art in itself. I am a beginner myself.

 

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I don't think add-on programs are the way to learn the art. For example, the conversion from color is generally done by choosing a particular color as the filter or by a channel mixer method. (Merely setting saturation to zero rarely gives good results.) Both are about how much to emphasize R,G,B at each pixel in deciding what gray level to give it. The two methods are in serious post processing programs like Picture Window Pro and Raw Therapee.

Contrast levels and transitions are the next important part of B&W. Some people learn how to do it on the color image. Everyone interested in the art must learn how to do it on the B&W conversion. The change may be global, and then more change is often done on selections within the image, roughly speaking, the dodging and burning taken over from the film era.

Playing with sliders in Silver EfEx might be satisfactory for quick work, but you don't learn the art.
 

[250swb]

Playing with sliders in Silver EfEx might be satisfactory for quick work, but you don't learn the art.

 

 

'Playing' with the sliders in Silver Efex replaces many far more complicated actions such as Layer Masks etc. that are available in Photoshop but these take hours to work through yet can be done in minutes in Silver Efex. As you say you are a beginner you shouldn't confuse a simple outcome with simple photography, very experienced photographers can immediately see the benefits and are quite happy to leave behind the constant juggling between Layers and use the immediacy of seeing directly what you are doing in Silver Efex. So when you get to the more sophisticated level of using Layers and Masks in your work you may want to give Silver Efex another look and not dismiss it so quickly.

 

Steve

[Clactonian]

 

I don't think add-on programs are the way to learn the art. ......

Playing with sliders in Silver EfEx might be satisfactory for quick work, but you don't learn the art.

 

 

Sorry but I really can't agree with this at all. I don't think it matters what program you are using provided that you fully understand what the controls in that particular program are doing. Playing with the sliders is a very efficient way of learning. Even the use of presets is invaluable in the learning process as one is able to see from the position of the various sliders and settings how a particular look has been achieved. Many masters of the art will use presets as a basis for the final image, fine tuning the controls to achieve their aims. SEPro has the additional benefit of Control Point local adjustments which again are just more easily achieved layer adjustments.

I really don't think that one earns more 'Brownie Points' for labouring over endless adjustments layers in Photoshop when it is possible to achieve the same end quickly and effectively using a few sliders. Surely it is the end product that counts not the method used to achieve it. Complex programs such as Photoshop (not originally designed just for photographers) may of course have the opposite effect by over complicating a simple process and slowing down or extinguishing the learning process.

Less time on the computer means more time for taking photographs or other pleasures.

 

Mike

[CharlesL]

I really don't think that one earns more 'Brownie Points' for labouring over endless adjustments layers in Photoshop... Surely it is the end product that counts not the method used to achieve it.

 

Agreed on Brownie Points. The masks that Picture Window Pro uses to make selections are probably less tedious than layers in PS.

 

Disagree on what counts, product and method. For the foreseeable future, we will get the starting image in R,G,B pixel format. The better one understands the curves and histograms that manipulate these ensembles, the broader and deeper one's knowledge.

 

An analogy is creating web pages. For learning, it is better to learn a good deal of HTML and CSS by doing. Later, you might want to use an authoring package to save time, but if you start with one of those packages, you know less and you are left at sea when circumstances compel a change from one package to another.

 

Edited September 2, 2015 by CharlesL

[Clactonian]

Perhaps I'm just lazy. I've always chosen the motorway rather than navigate those highways and bye-ways. Each to his own I guess.

[stunsworth]

Almost everything I put online is B&W. I use Alienskin Exposure. I can't be bothered to spend hours in Photoshop when I can get exactly what I want in a few minutes in the plugin. I've tried various PS techniques for conversion over the last 15+ years, and I've never been happier than with what I currently use.