A miller Posted June 17, 2015 Share #1 Posted June 17, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi Admins, The various forums relating to film and film camera are scattered, and I think it would make sense and stimulate more traffic to have them together. My suggestion for a hierachy would be as follows: Everything Film Film M cameras Film and film photography workflow Film photo forum The film photo forum is one of the most active on the entire forum. It has nearly as many views (123K) as the M8 photo forum (177K) and MM photo forum (139K), and has been in existence for a much short time (It was started in June of 2013, whereas the M8 photo forum started in 2010 and the MM photo forum started in Sept of 2012). In addition, there are a whopping 11 subscribers to the Film photo forum, compared to just 2 in the M8 photo forum and 5 in the MM photo forum. This demonstrated the strong interest that forum members have in viewing photos and engaging in discussion other other like-minded forum members. The film photo forum is filled with interesting substantive discussion regarding film cameras, type of film and film photography workflows. Much of this gets buried and lost in the scattered nature of the film-related sub forums. There are synergies to be created by having the three main film-centric sub-forums in the same hierarchial "tree". Please consider this request in ernest. Best regards, Adam Miller 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted June 17, 2015 Posted June 17, 2015 Hi A miller, Take a look here Reorganizing the Film forums. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Doc Henry Posted June 17, 2015 Share #2 Posted June 17, 2015 Hi Andreas, I can only approve the suggestion of Adam . I hope there will be a suite. Best regards Henry 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted June 17, 2015 Share #3 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Hello Everybody, I think separating Film Related Categories from other parts of the Forum is a move which will end up making Film Photography more & more tangential & irrelevant to the main thrust of the Forum. Not more inclusive.Most of what is is written about photography moves pretty seamlessly back & forth between film & digital. Don't forget: There hasn't been much of any change on the subject side of the lens since well before Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa. Most of what has changed has changed on the image capture surface of the recording surface. Not the photography itself. When changes are made like orphaning the early generations of early Leitz SLR Film Cameras by omitting the appropriate "SL" from the 35mm Reflex section (which would more accurately be called the "R/SL" System) a disservice is done both to the historical importance of early Leitz Reflex Cameras & to the perspective it leaves with readers unfamiliar with the history & usability of various Leitz/Leica gear. Example: Adam Didn't even think to include the 5 or so "SL" variations & what went with them in his list of categories. The majority of these are viable, functioning cameras with a lifespan well into the future. They might not have been financially successful for Leitz but they are still today exceptionally designed & built examples of what a well thought out, universally usable, easy handling, first class film SLR should be. Out of sight : Out of mind. Out of mind : No longer relevant. Not a place film M's should be. Or SL's either. By the way, another thought: Why wasn't a category of "Film Camera Lenses" also suggested for inclusion in this group? That is to say: A category including all of the lenses that were produced when film cameras were all there was? Leaving Digital Era produced lenses as the only lenses in the Lens Forum. Perhaps that is too silly a question to ask. Best Regards, Michael Edited June 17, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 17, 2015 Author Share #4 Posted June 17, 2015 Hello Everybody, I think separating Film Related Categories from other parts of the Forum is a move which will end up making Film Photography more & more tangential & irrelevant to the main thrust of the Forum. Not more inclusive. I DISAGREE. SINCE I SWITCHED TO ALL FILM WORKFLOW, I HARDLY EVERY VISIT THE SUB-FORUMS THAT DISCUSS DIGITAL TOPICS AND GEAR. I ONLY WANT TO TALK AND LEARN ABOUT FILM STUFF AND TRYING TO DO SO IS VERY CUMBERSOME AND CONVOLUTED. Most of what is is written about photography moves pretty seamlessly back & forth between film & digital. THIS DOESN'T REALLY APPLY TO MUCH OF THE FORUM WHICH IS GEAR AND PHOTO FORUM CENTRIC. Don't forget: There hasn't been much of any change on the subject side of the lens since well before Leonardo Da Vinci painted the Mona Lisa. Most of what has changed has changed on the image capture surface of the recording surface. Not the photography itself. SOUNDS LIKE THE TYPE OF DISCUSSION TO BE HAD AT THE BARNACK'S BAR, WHICH I AM NOT SUGGESTING BE CHANGED. When changes are made like orphaning the early generations of early Leitz SLR Film Cameras by omitting the appropriate "SL" from the 35mm Reflex section (which would more accurately be called the "R/SL" System) a disservice is done both to the historical importance of early Leitz Reflex Cameras & to the perspective it leaves with readers unfamiliar with the history & usability of various Leitz/Leica gear. I DON'T DISPUTE YOUR CONCERN HERE. Example: Adam Didn't even think to include the 5 or so "SL" variations & what went with them in his list of categories. The majority of these are viable, functioning cameras with a lifespan well into the future. They might not have been financially successful for Leitz but they are still today exceptionally designed & built examples of what a well thought out, universally usable, easy handling, first class film SLR should be. I MERELY RAISED AN IDEA AND WILL LEAVE IT TO OTHERS TO COMPLETE THE PICTURE. BUT I BELIEVE THAT THE HIERARCHY I OUTLINED IS THE GUTS OF IT. Out of sight : Out of mind. Out of mind : No longer relevant. I THINK THAT FOR HEAVY USERS LIKE ME WHO HAVE SPECIFIC INTERESTS, YOUR LOVELY PEOTIC PROSE DOESN'T REALLY APPLY. THERE IS A LARGE AND GROWING CORE OF MEMBERS WH ARE PRIMARILY INTERESTED IN RAPIDLY RE-ENERGIZED TOPIC OF FILM PHOTOGRAPHY, AND CONCENTRATING THE SUB-FORUMS WOULD, i THINK, MAKE THE FORUM MORE ENJOYABLE AND STIMULATING. Not a place film M's should be. Or SL's either. By the way, another thought: Why wasn't a category of "Film Camera Lenses" also suggested for inclusion in this group? That is to say: A category including all of the lenses that were produced when film cameras were all there was? Leaving Digital Era produced lenses as the only lenses in the Lens Forum. Perhaps that is too silly a question to ask. Best Regards, Michael RESPONSES IN ALL CAPS ABOVE. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave.gt Posted June 17, 2015 Share #5 Posted June 17, 2015 (edited) Andreas,First of all let me thank you and all others associated with making this forum the great community that it is. Personally, I owe you a lot.You may ask why and the answer is simple. Beyond being a hobby or source of information for a lot of photograph here worldwide, please know that this forum helps individuals like myself by introducing positive change in their lives.As a Fellow in The Royal Society of Arts, it is my one of my life objectives to promote and create positive changes in the world, wherever and whenever it may be possible. The quality of life, and inded the calling of all should be to help others. This forum is already doing that. For me, the forum has helped through the last several years of hard times with my dear wife suffering two strokes, heart problems and a subdural hematoma. I have been her sole caregiver for five years now on a 24/7 basis, a formidable task but a wonderful honor as well. The price has been a decrease in my overall quality of life with my own health suffering greatly.However, this forum has been a tremendous resource for my own recovery as well as empowering me to have a creative outlet and contacts such as Dr. Henry Thoannes. The power of the arts and the importance of social engagement rather than isolation cannot be minimized. All civilized life depends on both of these. Years ago, Dr. Thoannes and I discussed things in the digital Leica world. We both have extensive experience with digital photography and with Leica products in particular.Unknown to me, Dr. Thoannes was starting his Film thread "I Like Film" while I was absent from the photography community. I was so heart broken that I became isolated from the world, suffering from exhaustion and stress. I did not consider myself an individual let alone a photographer yet I carried my Leica M3 with me in my bag everywhere including emergency rooms in hospitals and living with my wife in a single room for 66 days as in-patient rehabilitation residents. I rarely slept and had only a wooden chair to sit in night after night. Using a blanket and my Leica bag as a pillow, I survived torturous months as not only a caregiver but the guardian of the love of my life.In recent months I found the "I Love Film" thread and immediately I began to take interest in life again. The M3 was joined by an M6 and I am now processing my own film. I feel life is worth living again and my therapist has seen a major shift in my life and the quality of care I am now able to give the love of my life. She is now recovering nicely and with a few remaining sequelae, we are happy and looking forward to the rest of life together. One of my wife's physicians saw her walking into her office without a wheelchair and exclaimed that she just saw a miracle!So, you see, the process of film photography has become an organic process that not only feeds my soul but produces a network of people and resources that has changed the lives of our family. After years of digital photography, I find myself part of the huge community of photographers who not only use digital photography but also want to continue learning more about film photography. There is so much to learn! It can be overwhelming.I respectfully request, as Dr. Thoannes stated above, that the film forum changes requested be granted. It certainly will not negatively impact anyone. It will, however, be a step forward in assisting those of us to easily access the forum, and enter this community of photographers who are passionate about film photography. Indeed, my own grandchildren are excited about using my cameras since I started them using my rangefinders at age three. I am looking forward to their participation on this forum soon as they are 11 years old and are now able and willing to learn more of what is important to us.Note: My apologies for any typos I might have missed as it is difficult to type such a diatribe on the iPhone. Edited June 17, 2015 by dave.gt 9 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbldwn Posted June 17, 2015 Share #6 Posted June 17, 2015 Everything Film Film M cameras Film and film photography workflow Film photo forum I like Adam's organization very much and hope Admins implement it. Thanks to Doc Henry, for the first time in years I can find film images on this website easily. Adam's suggested organization will make it even better for viewers like me and may bring others back to the website the way Doc Henry's initial TOPIC brought me back. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted June 18, 2015 Share #7 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Hello Adam, Thank you for your response. I have rarely seen such an energized response since I spent 6&!/2 years in various divorce courts with various wives. As per your first response (I disagree.) to my Post #3 just above (I don't have the technical expertise with a computer to "click" it here): I never suggested or intimated that the current categories of film cameras be included with digital cameras. I only suggested that they be left where they are because they are part & parcel of that part of photography. Sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. As per your response (This doesn't really): It certainly does apply. I say that as a person who is as "Gear & Photo Forum Centric" as many people. If you have any doubt you might look up how many "Gear & Photo Forum Centric" questions I have answered for people. Many film related. One of the most important aspects of Leica Digital Photography is its seamlessness in many situations with preceding "M" film cameras. That is 1 of the reasons they call these camera M8, M9, M240 & so forth. As per your response (Sounds like): Whether or not it has been discussed in Barnack's Bar before: It is part & parcel as well as relevant to the positions you brought up here today & it needs to be remembered. As per your response (I don't): Thank you. As per your response (I merely): You have not merely done anything. You have defended your position like a tiger. A tiger who ony writes with capital letters. A tiger's defense all in capital lettters is something that is not often described as "merely". As per your response (I think): I don't see the coonection between what you wrote in response to my statement of: Out of sight - Out of mind Out of mind - No longer relevant I think "Out of sight - Out of mind" coupled with "Out of mind - Out of relevance" is in fact very relevant given my example that the current Forum structure leaves out the SL's entirely & with your suggested reorganization you never thought to include them. Out of sight - Out of mind. Out of mind - No longer relevant. Thank you again for your considered response. Best Regards, Michael Edited June 18, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Hello Adam, Thank you for your response. I have rarely seen such an energized response since I spent 6&!/2 years in various divorce courts with various wives. As per your first response (I disagree.) to my Post #3 just above (I don't have the technical expertise with a computer to "click" it here): I never suggested or intimated that the current categories of film cameras be included with digital cameras. I only suggested that they be left where they are because they are part & parcel of that part of photography. Sorry you misunderstood what I was saying. TO ME, THIS ISN'T A COMPELLING ENOUGH REASON. I SIMPLY DISAGREE. As per your response (This doesn't really): It certainly does apply. I say that as a person who is as "Gear & Photo Forum Centric" as many people. If you have any doubt you might look up how many "Gear & Photo Forum Centric" questions I have answered for people. Many film related. One of the most important aspects of Leica Digital Photography is its seamlessness in many situations with preceding "M" film cameras. That is 1 of the reasons they call these camera M8, M9, M240 & so forth. I RARELY SEE A DISCUSSION ON A DIGITAL FORUM THREAD INCLUDE A DISCUSSION OF A FILM CAMERA, AT LEAST IN A MANNER THAT WOULD BE A SUFFICIENTLY COUNTERVAILING FACTOR TO MY PROPOSAL.. THE REAL NEEDED SEAMLESSNESS IS NOT THE PROXIMITY OF THE DISCUSSIONS CONTAINING DIGITAL M BODIES WITH FILM M BODIES, BUT RATHER THE PROXIMITY OF THE DISCUSSION OF FILM M BODIES TO FILM AND FILM PHOTOGRAPHY WORKFLOWS, AS WELL AS THE ACTUALLY FILM PHOTO FORUM. ALL TO OFTEN THERE ARE VERY INSIGHTFUL DISCUSSIONS OF FILM AND FILM PHOTOGRAPHY WORKFLOW IN THE FILM PHOTO SECTION. THESE TOPICS REALLY SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN THE FILM AND FILM PHOTOGRAPHY WORKFLOW FORUM. HAVING THE PROXIMITY WILL HELP IN THIS REGARD. As per your response (Sounds like): Whether or not it has been discussed in Barnack's Bar before: It is part & parcel as well as relevant to the positions you brought up here today & it needs to be remembered. I GUESS YOUR POINT WAS - AND STILL IS - OVER MY HEAD. NOT BEING NASTY, JUST HONEST... As per your response (I don't): Thank you. As per your response (I merely): You have not merely done anything. You have defended your position like a tiger. A tiger who ony writes with capital letters. A tiger's defense all in capital lettters is something that is not often described as "merely". HONESTLY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT "SL VARIATIONS" MEANS. DO I NEED TO IN ORDER TO MAKE MY PROPOSAL? As per your response (I think): I don't see the coonection between what you wrote in response to my statement of: Out of sight - Out of mind Out of mind - No longer relevant I think "Out of sight - Out of mind" coupled with "Out of mind - Out of relevance" is in fact very relevant given my example that the current Forum structure leaves out the SL's entirely & with your suggested reorganization you never thought to include them. Out of sight - Out of mind. Out of mind - No longer relevant. I WOULDN'T SELL SHORT THE FOLLOW ON EFFORTS OF ANDREAS AND THE ADMINS TO GET THIS DONE RIGHT, AT LEAST FOR THE MASSES WHO WANT IT. Thank you again for your considered response. Best Regards, Michael HI MICHAEL. THIS TIME MY RESPONSES ARE IN ALL CAPS AND BOLD. IT SEEMS FROM THE SWELL OF SUPPORT THAT THIS IS INDEED A CHANGE TO THE FORUM STRUCTURE THAT IS WORTH MAKING. Edited June 18, 2015 by A miller Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted June 18, 2015 Share #9 Posted June 18, 2015 By the way, another thought: Why wasn't a category of "Film Camera Lenses" also suggested for inclusion in this group? That is to say: A category including all of the lenses that were produced when film cameras were all there was? Leaving Digital Era produced lenses as the only lenses in the Lens Forum. Perhaps that is too silly a question to ask. Best Regards, Michael Hi Michael, how are you ? You are right for the last suggestion "film camera lens". Why not ? Lens mounted on my analog cameras also "change" the pictures compared with pictures coming from my M8 and M9. Best Henry 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Henry Posted June 18, 2015 Share #10 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Thank you Dave, it's too much honor for me . We are a group of photographers (that expands each day) and who love film. Why ? because simply we are looking what is beautiful ! images from digital cameras are not satisfactory for us . I say that after 5 years of exclusive digital Leica cameras and lens , and after 40 years (since 1970) of photography also with exclusive Leica equipment ! We are open to all suggestions to talk about "around the film" included photos because we think it will interest a lot of people here .I know we are in the digital age with the evolution of unlimited sensor but the film remains for me the reference ! the race for pixels with a digital camera that devalues , while film cameras are still there and reliability that exceed the digital and especially making beautiful pictures. Honor to Henri Cartier Bresson and Oskar Barnack ! Best Henry Edited June 18, 2015 by Doc Henry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted June 18, 2015 Share #11 Posted June 18, 2015 If I get anything worthwhile out of this forum at all, it invariably comes from film related threads and contributors to those threads are often rather more interesting to me as photographers than many others here. They are amongst the most active, so I would encourage a little thought to improved coordination and structure of a film sub-forum 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted June 18, 2015 Share #12 Posted June 18, 2015 Sympathetic as I find this request, I would like to point out that Leica does not design their M lenses as "film" or "digital" There are quite a few legacy lenses that interest digital photographers and the newest designs perform perfectly on film. Trying to split up lens subforums would be impossible. Note that I do not write in bold blue. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share #13 Posted June 18, 2015 Sympathetic as I find this request, I would like to point out that Leica does not design their M lenses as "film" or "digital" There are quite a few legacy lenses that interest digital photographers and the newest designs perform perfectly on film. Trying to split up lens subforums would be impossible. Note that I do not write in bold blue. I would agree with this. All Leica M lenses work wonderfully on all Leica M camera bodies. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted June 18, 2015 Share #14 Posted June 18, 2015 Me too. I'd like the concept to retain some credibility, at least. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuthbert Posted June 18, 2015 Share #15 Posted June 18, 2015 I support this idea! just to say it... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
LUF Admin Posted June 18, 2015 Share #16 Posted June 18, 2015 Thanks for your suggestion - and I'm considering this (or something else) in ernest! The discussion shows some of the aspects I have to take into account before changing the structure of the forum. Right now the most dominant structure comes from the product systems - M, Q, T, X etc. plus historica, photo forum, general discussion, and the forum itself. - If we make the question film or digital more important it's going to be a different structure. - If we split up the existing film forum we are creating a 4th level - which reduces IMHO the usability and visibility - What shall I do with existing film-related subforums like 'Leica M7/MP' or 'Darkroom'? R-System except for DMR? The problem is, that we have a tree structure without the option to have the same content in different places of the tree... This is not a „No“ but when changing the forum structure the result must still have an underlying logic. Yes, the current state lacks in some places this logic too. But this shouldn't be an argument to drop it in other places too I'd welcome more suggestions how to improve the experience for film photographers. But please understand that I must decide such changes very carefully... Andreas 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
A miller Posted June 18, 2015 Author Share #17 Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Thanks, Andreas. As Film M bodies, the "Leica M7/MP" would simply be merged into the "Film M cameras" branch of the tree. In fact, the branch could be renamed "Leica Film Cameras" to include both M and non-M bodies. I think this is similar to how, for a long time, you combined the M9 and MM bodies in the same sub-forum. Frankly, I don't think there is a large amount of activity in the non-M film body sub-forums. I really don't have a strong view either way. But I wouldn't have thought that it would be a big deal to have the M and non-M film bodies as 1 or 2 branches of the same tree. The fact is that most people who have a Leica III (or earlier) also own a film M of some kind. And as a regular user of my IIIg, I don't view it as a piece of "historia" or a "collectors item" and thus am lost as to where on the forum to discusss it. Lots of people use their III bodies regularly and we should stimulate discussion of these great bodies along side the M (and other) Leica film bodies). I am suggesting that the Darkroom forum would be merged into the "Film Photography Workflow" branch of the tree. This makes perfect sense to me. Nowadays, people who take the post-shooting process into their own hands will invariably be involved with the development phase, the scanning phase and the manual printing phase. They will need to figure out what developers to use, what scanners to use and what enlargers to use - and most of all, how the h$ll to use all these things! These topics collectively represent the "workflow" of a modern film photographer. Accordingly, these phases of the process really should be combined into a single sub-forum. We very often will get inspired to do more with our photography workflow by hearing what others are successfully doing. Someone who is primarily scanning and printing digitally will likely be receptive to hearing how others are getting along with printing their negatives manually, which may inspire them to try it out themselves. I am where I am today with my film workflow largely due to the inspriation from other (albiet not necessarily exclusively) film photographers. Anyone who shoots film has an appreciation for the manual and organic process of photography. I would venture to say that the vast majority of us who discuss film here had no formal training in film photography and are essentially teaching this to ourselves, with the help of this forum. Combining threads on topics that comrpise the entire workflow (from discussions regarding films, to the development of the films, to the scanning of the films and manual printing, and gear related thereto) would be tremendously synergenistic and of great value to us. Sure, this will take careful thinking. But I think it is the best service you can provide. And you will be rewarded with a stimulated traffic and membership. It will also be a hommage to the long and storied film history of Leica. Best, Adam Edited June 18, 2015 by A miller 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfbldwn Posted June 18, 2015 Share #18 Posted June 18, 2015 HONESTLY, I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHAT "SL VARIATIONS" MEANS Re: this post http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/246567-reorganizing-the-film-forums/page-1?do=findComment&comment=2837198 Hi Adam, I understood it to mean he mistook your title of the first sub-folder "1. Film M Cameras" to be intentionally exclusive of Leica SL, SL2 and R cameras. This was quite a stretch in my opinion. I think your response "I MERELY RAISED AN IDEA AND WILL LEAVE IT TO OTHERS TO COMPLETE THE PICTURE" was most appropriate and quite adequate. It may be that he wanted multiple folders, one for Leica rangefinder film cameras and one (or more?) each for SL, SL2, and each R camera. In the post any clarification was omitted in order to focus on an issue more important to the poster: " the main thrust of the Forum" I understood the "main thrust of the Forum" in that post is to emphasize "One of the most important aspects of Leica Digital Photography is its seamlessness in many situations with preceding 'M' film cameras" Evidently, the way I read his post, an attempt to segregate film from digital makes film "tangential & irrelevant to the main thrust of the Forum". I write carefully now ... it does not make film "tangential & irrelevant", it does make film "tangential & irrelevant" to the Main Thrust of the Forum. Cheers, David 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted June 19, 2015 Share #19 Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Hello Henry, How are you? It has been too long since we have spoken. What I was writing about above was simply the logical extension of what Adam was saying, which is: That the Lens Forum should be broken into 2 separate sections: 1 - For lenses produced when there were only film cameras. 2 - For lenses produced since there have been digital cameras. I was not advocating this. I am sorry for the confusion from the lack of clarity in my writing. I personally do not think breaking the Lens Forum into separate sections is a good idea. In his Post # 13 above Adam also said he thought it was not a good idea. Please note: In my discussion about the contents of Adam's Post at the top: I have never advocated limiting discussion or inclusion of his list of topics in any way throughout the Larger Forum as it is. I am simply saying that abstracting them from the main thrust of the Larger Forum where they correlate & interface nicely with other areas is counterproductive & separates them from many potentially interested people who might, because of this separation, perceive "Film" as somewhat alien & tangential to the idea of photography in general. Quite frankly some non "M" Film Camera users might not see other avenues to gather the information they are looking for in the Remaining Forums because the information is in the Categories extracted for a Film Only Section. As you know, I am a Film "M" user & have been so since before dinosaurs roamed the Earth. Many of the questions I answer on this Forum are Film "M" related. Best Regards, Michael Edited June 19, 2015 by Michael Geschlecht 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Geschlecht Posted June 19, 2015 Share #20 Posted June 19, 2015 Hello David, Welcome to the Forum. Thank you for your comment. When I wrote about the "SL" cameras I was speaking about a group of reflex cameras that were left out that I unfortunately apparently did not clarify adequately. I will try to do better here: Adam had specifically excluded "R" mount cameras entirely when he wrote his original text. He later corrected this in his Post #17 above. What I was referring to was the group of reflex cameras that preceded the introduction of the "R" mount lenses & their cameras: The Leicaflex , The Leicaflex SL, The Leicaflex SL MOT, The Leicaflex SL2 & The Leicaflex SL2 MOT. These are the 5. The confusion may have arisen with my use of the shortened term "SL" which many people use as a way of indicating the earlier cameras (Not all actually "SL") which take a group of cameras which sometimes do not interface correctly with the later series of "R" mount lenses. But: All of the film "M's", Various Leicaflex models & "R's" use the same film so that once out of the camera the rest would be the same. I was using the exclusion of the Leicaflex models from the "R" section as an example of how the exclusion of the Leicaflex models was also missed by him. About your idea to make film & developing purposely tangential to the Majority of the Forum even where there is significant beneficial overlap: I would ask you why? Best Regards, Michael 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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