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To X or not to X - help a newbie please...


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I am currently using a Nikon DSLR D5100 with an 18-140mm (f/3.5-5.6 VR) lens. No complaints about the camera apart from its size. So started looking for a new camera, smaller in size which I can take with me on walks/holidays/etc. Initially was looking at the Fuji X100T and through my research stumbled upon Leica. It brought back memories of my dad's Leicas when about 25-30 years ago when I was a kid which coupled with that beautiful silver and black design made me fall in love straight away. Please forgive me for sounding so shallow but to me the design of an object is very important.

 

I absolutely adore the M-A model but unfortunately I am not able to justify the price it asks and I am not quite sure how long film processing facilities will continue to be available in this world. Therefore the X-Vario is quite appealing to me due to what it offers (design/performance vs affordability). However it is quite difficult to make a decision when I have read so many negative reviews on the internet. Reading lines like..."To be caught with a Leica X Vario in your Billingham bag tells the world you are a rich snob who cares less about the value than the price of things, and you probably drive a Jaguar and prance around in an expensive Ermenegildo Zegna suit." (petapixel.com)  is not particularly very reassuring. So before pulling the plug I wanted to ask a few questions and ask for advice from people whom have hands on experience with the camera.

 

1. Have the initial glitches with the camera been resolved (via firmware updates)?

2. When people say the speed of the lens is a bit slow, how slow is that? Is it really as frustrating with moving objects as they       make it to be? Is it something noticeable by an amateur taking mainly photos of family, nature and touristy stuff?

3. What are the differences between typ107 and 113?

4.When is the next model due to be releassed? Is it worth waiting for it?

 

And finally... can you recommend any good online stores that offer the camera for a good price or offer decent deals? Are Leica products usually the subject of seasonal discounts/offers?

 

Apologies for all the questions but I thought to check because refering to that quote above, I am certainly not the type of man that drives a Jag or wears Zegna suits :)

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The X Vario has a more limited zoom range than the lens on your Nikon. When it's referred to as slow it means the fastest aperture, not AF speed.

 

The lens is said to be very good however despite its lack of speed (beneficial in low light and to give shallow depth of field for when you want to throw the background/foreground of an image out of focus). 

 

Bear in mind that it doesn't have a built in viewfinder. With the clip on viewfinder I'm not sure the whole package is much smaller than your Nikon. You should really have a look at one in a store before deciding IMHO. 

 

As for film, you don't need to worry about being able to buy or process it. If you like the MA you could buy a used film M and lens for much less than the cost of an X Vario. But that's a whole different way of working. 

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The point about rich snobs is as baseless as the one about film.   But for the cost of an X Vario you can buy at least a mint-minus used M2, a design icon that will keep taking photographs for much longer than any digital.

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First, take James’s advice and try out the camera! You need to be comfortable with the handling and you need to satisfy yourself that the focusing speed and accuracy are what you need. Second, find a reviewer you can trust. For an informative, balanced and reliable review I recommend David Farkas at http://www.reddotforum.com/content/2013/07/leica-x-vario-typ-107-review-looking-beyond-the-specs-2/

 

I’ve had the camera for two years. It has become a firm favourite and my first choice as a travel camera. Focusing in very dim light can be on the slow side but it is invariably accurate in my experience. The lens is outstanding and, in combination with the sensor, gives results well up to Leica standards. I’ve never had any difficulty getting the amount of out-of-focus blur I want but then I’m usually happy with enough blur to make the subject stand out. For an AF-equipped camera, its manual focusing mode is very well implemented.

 

The marketing launch of the X Vario was badly botched by Leica, which got it off to a bad start. It is said that sales have been disappointing so it may be unlikely that there will a successor model. I wouldn't be at all surprised if the X Vario were to become a Leica classic.

 

Welcome to the forum!

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The X Vario is already heavily discounted which makes it even better value for money. Most dealers will let you try one in store so that you can satisfy yourself with its handling. Take your own SD card and examine the results at leisure. The lens is stunning and only becomes slightly limited in low light when unsupported. I ofter use a small table tripod such as Manfrotto Pixie.

 

Very occasionally AF fails despite a green light glowing. Usually you are aware of that and can reshoot if practicable. Only a few users have reported this behaviour.

 

Welcome to the forum and do not associate Leica with snobbery. That is a personal trait, much less due to branding.

Edited by wda
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Images produced by the XV are superlative.. It takes a little care" -- Someway or another we are all snobs!!  But Leica owners mostly produce the "Photographic Goods"

Now it's back to my M-P 240 Safari, unboxing my new Rolex and having my new Challenger detailed.. Brandy Anyone? -- :rolleyes:  

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The X Vario has a more limited zoom range than the lens on your Nikon.

The lens is said to be very good however despite its lack of speed (beneficial in low light and to give shallow depth of field for when you want to throw the background/foreground of an image out of focus). 

 

 

The zoom limitations are fine since I very rarely go above 70mm anyway so that is not an issue. However good performance in low light and shallow depth of field are two features which I do use. An example of low light performance would be when I'm abroad with friends or family and decide to take a picture of us (generally with some landmark building or in a nice area around us.

 

I dont know if there are websites where I can see examples of pictures taken with XV during different times of day or night?

 

  But for the cost of an X Vario you can buy at least a mint-minus used M2, a design icon that will keep taking photographs for much longer than any digital.

 

I haven't used a manual for a long time (and even then my experience was limited) but I have heard that the rangefinder mechanism requires servicing every so often. I presume this is something that needs to be done by Leica or a specialised shop? I'm not quite sure how much that would cost. I once bought a Breitling watch (automatic) which cost £4k and it needed servicing every few years which cost (£700 a pop). Suffice to say that no matter how much I loved the watch I sold it and bought a quartz one instead (I'll never buy an automatic again for that reason alone).

 

On top of financial matters the film cameras have the major drawback that you are not able to view the photos there and then thus you dont know what you will get. It is for these reasons that I am reluctant to go down the film camera road (as much as I love them).

First, take James’s advice and try out the camera! You need to be comfortable with the handling and you need to satisfy yourself that the focusing speed and accuracy are what you need.

 

The X Vario is already heavily discounted which makes it even better value for money.

 

Welcome to the forum and do not associate Leica with snobbery. That is a personal trait, much less due to branding.

 

As James suggests I will go and try the camera first although the few shops that Leica lists are quite a distance away (I live in Macclesfield, Cheshire). Are you guys able to shed some light on any other independent shops that may be available in this area?

 

As far as price goes I have seen the black version heavily discounted in a few places but I am struggling to find the silver version (which is the one I want) discounted to a similar price anywhere. Are you guys able to share any info regarding websites that sell it at a discounted price please?

 

Also are Leica cameras subject to seasonal discounts? For example do they go on sale around Christmas time either with fdiscount or as bundle deals? Or does Leica control their prices same way as Apple does?

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For the price of an X Vario, you could also consider a M8 + Summicron 35 or 40mm with a 90 Elmar. To me that looks more in line with your upgrade path from the Nikon D5100 or as alternative to Fuji X100T. It will also keep its value much better than the X vario

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For the price of an X Vario, you could also consider a M8 + Summicron 35 or 40mm with a 90 Elmar. To me that looks more in line with your upgrade path from the Nikon D5100 or as alternative to Fuji X100T. It will also keep its value much better than the X vario

 A very enticing suggestion and one which has traveled through my brain several times. However, every time I have also, thankfully, been self aware and remembered the fact that I am a mere amateur in terms of my knowledge of photography skills. Even my use of the current DSLR is mostly on auto mode (not for lack of willingness but rather lact of time due to other life commitments). Therefore I think the M8 (or any Mseries) would be too much of a steep learning curve for me.

 

So I thought perhaps I could start with the X-Vario instead and work my way up. Somehow I have created an impression/belief that the X-Vario would be more forgiving than the M series (I am not sure why and it is very likely that I may be totally wrong).

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To be honest the learning curve on an M is mostly focussing, within a few weeks you will be able to judge the overall distance and fine tune in milliseconds..

I keep my M set to Auto on the speed dial and use aperture & EV .. You can then review your shots and make fine adjustments.. You can also use the Hyperfocal set up ( I keep my M set on f5.6/Hyperfocal when wandering) I've used my XV & M for weddings, car shows and general wanderings..The M gives an amazing feeling of satisfaction.. ;)

Why not rent one of each and cover a serious subject over a few days.. Let the results help you decide..  B)

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To be honest the learning curve on an M is mostly focussing, within a few weeks you will be able to judge the overall distance and fine tune in milliseconds..

I keep my M set to Auto on the speed dial and use aperture & EV .. You can then review your shots and make fine adjustments.. You can also use the Hyperfocal set up ( I keep my M set on f5.6/Hyperfocal when wandering) I've used my XV & M for weddings, car shows and general wanderings..The M gives an amazing feeling of satisfaction.. ;)

Why not rent one of each and cover a serious subject over a few days.. Let the results help you decide..  B)

 

I am going to a nearby shop tomorrow to try both cameras (not sure if they rent or not but I may take advantage of that if they do). Obviously if I decide to go the M8 route it would have to be a used one since I dont think I would be able to afford a new one. What should I look for in terms of faults, etc when buying a used M8?

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Going tomorrow to try the various models they have at Sheffield store.

 Well, that was a wasted 60 mile round trip. Went to the store and every single Leica camera they had (both new and used ones) had run out of battery. So I was not able to try any of them :(  The price of the black XV was £1600 and the silver XV was £1900. When asked why the guy said that the XV is 'nearly' being discontinued :rolleyes:

 

As I do not have an M8 I cannot really answer your questions.

But, I'm sure many others on the Forum will offer info and advice a plenty..

Regards, L

 

Amen to that. I am also hoping to get some advice on where I may be able to get a good deal on a silver XV :)

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The X Vario has a more limited zoom range than the lens on your Nikon. When it's referred to as slow it means the fastest aperture, not AF speed.

 

The lens is said to be very good however despite its lack of speed (beneficial in low light and to give shallow depth of field for when you want to throw the background/foreground of an image out of focus). 

 

 How would the lens on the X Vario compare to the Nikon kit lens (18-50mm f/3.5-5.6) in the aperture speed department? Is it possible to compare? Also, is the depth of field performance average ( I quite like shallow depth of field) ?

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 How would the lens on the X Vario compare to the Nikon kit lens (18-50mm f/3.5-5.6) in the aperture speed department? Is it possible to compare? Also, is the depth of field performance average ( I quite like shallow depth of field) ?

 

The X-Vario lens in my opinion runs circles around the Nikon and any other normal zoom available on the market including the hyped ones such as the Fuji 18-55.

 

I get a look on the image with beautiful colors and nice 3D separation at the zoom's 50mm setting (and f5 or so) as well as stunning performance against the light (sun) that I have never been able to achieve with an 18-50'ish on Canon, Nikon, Fuji or Olympus (that's the ones I have owned and used).

 

If you are used to entry to mid level DSLR with the bundled lens, you will have no issue whatsoever with the aperture.

 

The only issue with the X-Vario is: Getting a >f3.5 lens means buying the X (113) as the lens is permanently attached.

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 How would the lens on the X Vario compare to the Nikon kit lens (18-50mm f/3.5-5.6) in the aperture speed department? Is it possible to compare? Also, is the depth of field performance average ( I quite like shallow depth of field) ?

 

Hi,

 

When we talk about speed in this context it's the widest or fastest aperture of a given lens. The Leica Noctilux has a widest aperture of f1 and a very narrow depth of field at that aperture, so if you focus on say the tip of someones nose, their eyes are going to be out of focus (unless they have a very squashed nose!).

 

The Leica lens is f3.5-6.4, so 'worse' in terms of speed purely on a like for like basis. I don't know how they compare optically, but my guess is that there will be much of a muchness for normal applications / output. Depth of field on both isn't going to be too shallow, you'd really want a lens with f2.8 or wider on an APS-C camera.

 

You can easily test how images might look with your current Nikon lens, using it at the same focal length/apertures as the other lenses.

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Depth of field is influenced by focal length, aperture, sensor size and distance to subject.

 

Anyone thinking in single digit mm of depth of field is most probably a Noctilux customer anyway. Everybody else pretty much just wants separation of subject from background when shooting portraits, for example. You can achieve this with the X-Vario, you just need to think about the factors and do a little planning instead of simply turning the aperture wheel to f1.4 and clicking away.

 

On average, for consumers (who are the primary target for bundled zoom lenses such as the 18-55) having more sharp is an advantage rather than a problem.

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Generally speaking, kit zooms from companies like Nikon and Canon are average consumer lenses.  They are produced at a very low price point, and the build quality and optical performance reflects this.  The X Vario lens was designed for the best balance of optical quality vs aperture and overall size.  If you peruse flickr for X Vario images you will see many excellent examples of what can be accomplished with this camera.

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