earleygallery Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share #41 Posted July 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Clearly I'm a lone fish swimming upstream here but as a famous marketing guru says, "When the world zigs, zag!" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 1, 2015 Posted July 1, 2015 Hi earleygallery, Take a look here It's not too late for Leica to enter the prosumer DSLR market. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 1, 2015 Share #42 Posted July 1, 2015 How can you say that an imaginary camera will be far superior to anything else? As you can see so definately into the future, perhaps you can offer the forum some racing tips for today's meets? Do you think that the T is 'far superior' to anything Sony offer in mirrorless APS-C? Your suggested Leica prosumer APS DSLR will fall before it reaches the start. Any rival to Sony's FF EVIL camera has to be superior to succeed - otherwise it could end up being remaindered like your Canon M tortoise dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 1, 2015 Author Share #43 Posted July 1, 2015 Your suggested Leica prosumer APS DSLR will fall before it reaches the start. Any rival to Sony's FF EVIL camera has to be superior to succeed - otherwise it could end up being remaindered like your Canon M tortoise dunk I think the T is a better example. Not superior to Sony's offerings and looking like it's remaindered! You should try a Canon M, it's a super little camera and the 22 prime is excellent. The latest M3 version has some nice additional features but I'm happy with the M 'classic'. Did you know it has been the largest selling mirrorless camera in Japan? Hardly 'remaindered'! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 1, 2015 Share #44 Posted July 1, 2015 I think the T is a better example. Not superior to Sony's offerings and looking like it's remaindered! You should try a Canon M, it's a super little camera and the 22 prime is excellent. The latest M3 version has some nice additional features but I'm happy with the M 'classic'. Did you know it has been the largest selling mirrorless camera in Japan? Hardly 'remaindered'! ??? The T is alive and well and illicit rumours suggesting its demise are naysayers' pure wishful thinkings with no foundation whatsoever … it's a system camera under development with a good future. dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wildlightphoto Posted July 1, 2015 Share #45 Posted July 1, 2015 I handled an A7 and contemplated buying but was put off by the negatives when used with Leica lenses as documented on this forum. Yes the A7 series is evolving but rival manufacturers are unlikely to introduce competitors which are not 'state of the art' and equal to or better than Sony's current offerings. The A7 series is superb especially with its dedicated lenses but it's not necessarily the ideal or 'future best' M and R platform. dunk This thread is about R not M and as an R solution the A7 series has a lot going for it. In the future there may be something better but I can't use a future camera today. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevelap Posted July 1, 2015 Share #46 Posted July 1, 2015 (edited) Clearly I'm a lone fish swimming upstream here but as a famous marketing guru says, "When the world zigs, zag!" But James, if Leica had introduced an APS-C DSLR they would have zig'd whereas with the T (and the Q) they zag'd! Edited July 1, 2015 by stevelap Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted July 1, 2015 Share #47 Posted July 1, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) It has been TOO late for a while now actually, the DM-R was already too late. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ph. Posted July 1, 2015 Share #48 Posted July 1, 2015 The DMR was a bridge leading away from film across to digital. The key feature of the single lens reflex was that one would view and focus through the lens, not that it had a mirror. With mirrors, prisms, allied mechanics and a longer back focus no longer needed, that bridge can now be crossed and left behind. Still, a full frame, extremely high quality, compact (M-style) through-the lens wiewing device does not yet exist, and a digital camera which does not depreciate at great speed is unobtainable. The key weakness of digital cameras compared to their analogue predecessors, apart from feature overload, is that their innards either become outmoded, or incapable of being repaired, and this process proceeds very much faster than before. A basic, interchangeable Leica back could offer 4k film, WiFI and flippable backscreen to those who wish such additions. At the other end of the scale, another cheaper (or more expensive?) back could merely provide RAW files on a card and picture review through the viewfinder. And of course if a variant of this could be given a smaller sensor and a different shape so as to fit an R8 or R9 that would be nice. p. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted July 22, 2015 Share #49 Posted July 22, 2015 The M sensor already works fine with R lenses. True. I forgot about the R adapter. I'd be fine with that, but I doubt it will happen. Unlike when the Nikon F was developed, mirror boxes now are on the trailing edge of technology and unlike the un-metered Nikon F this hypothetical camera would also need a different metering system which adds to the development cost. They could use the matrix metering system from the S. Maybe even a scaled down version of the S mirror box. From the camera maker's POV developing a reflex camera now would require a very high profit margin to recover the development cost plus return on the investment in the very few years before the camera is obsolete; an investment in a leading-edge technology EVF applicable to a broader range of products would provide a much better ROI over a longer term. True, but if they reused the electronics from the M and S line it would cut down costs considerably. But I agree that this is highly unlikely to happen. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 22, 2015 Share #50 Posted July 22, 2015 Why are we still discussing such a dead duck? It's never going to happen - especially for the potential volumes that could / might sell at a great €€loss. dunk 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 22, 2015 Share #51 Posted July 22, 2015 Indeed, why climb aboard a sinking ship. If the evf on the Q is as good as reviews indicate then flapping mirrors are a thing of the past. The new Sony seems to have better af with Canon lenses than the Canon dslrs too... Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted July 22, 2015 Share #52 Posted July 22, 2015 If the evf on the Q is as good as reviews indicate then flapping mirrors are a thing of the past. Possibly but the EVF will need to get a whole lot better before I'd want to use one. I have tried out the Q camera and the EVF seemed no less unpleasant than all the other EVFs I have tried. An awful method of composing a photograph IMO. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hamey Posted July 22, 2015 Share #53 Posted July 22, 2015 Why are we still discussing such a dead duck? It's never going to happen - especially for the potential volumes that could / might sell at a great €€loss. dunk If you're referring to the Leica R series, it's certainly no dead duck to me, as I still love using them, but personally my opinion has changed as I don't care nore Am I Interested in what Leica builds nowadays, I disposed my M240 a few months back. If need be, for Digital use, I can use my R lenses on a Canon, and my M lenses on the Fuji X-T1 so their future is very bright indeed. I am sure someone is going to ask why am I still here, well I still have 9 R lenses and 5 R cameras as well as the M7 and the 28mm f/2,asph 35mm f/2 asph and the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 asph, so I am sure I have enough Leica equipment to qualify to be on this forum. Ken. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkCambridgeshire Posted July 22, 2015 Share #54 Posted July 22, 2015 If you're referring to the Leica R series, it's certainly no dead duck to me, as I still love using them, but personally my opinion has changed as I don't care nore Am I Interested in what Leica builds nowadays, I disposed my M240 a few months back. If need be, for Digital use, I can use my R lenses on a Canon, and my M lenses on the Fuji X-T1 so their future is very bright indeed. I am sure someone is going to ask why am I still here, well I still have 9 R lenses and 5 R cameras as well as the M7 and the 28mm f/2,asph 35mm f/2 asph and the Summilux 50mm f/1.4 asph, so I am sure I have enough Leica equipment to qualify to be on this forum. Ken. Much as I admire the R system (my grab and go camera is still the R9/DMR plus 21-35 R or 28-90 R), any new 'miniature' Leica DSLR / SLR (as distinct from the 'S' series) would be a dead duck … demand for a new Leica APS-C or FF DSLR would be insufficient to justify production … thus design and development costs could never be recovered. At the end of the day the 'bottom line' rules. Without potential profit there's no point in designing a consumer camera. dunk Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
earleygallery Posted July 22, 2015 Author Share #55 Posted July 22, 2015 Indeed, why climb aboard a sinking ship. If the evf on the Q is as good as reviews indicate then flapping mirrors are a thing of the past. Gerry ...and I assume that goes for the old fashioned delicate/expensive to make rangefinder too? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted July 22, 2015 Share #56 Posted July 22, 2015 Your post will be deleted soon. jan 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thrid Posted July 22, 2015 Share #57 Posted July 22, 2015 Indeed, why climb aboard a sinking ship. If the evf on the Q is as good as reviews indicate then flapping mirrors are a thing of the past. The new Sony seems to have better af with Canon lenses than the Canon dslrs too... Gerry There is no EVF that is fully real time. You can't beat the speed of light bouncing off a mirror. EVF is ok for landscapes and slow moving action, but it won't cut it for sports etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 22, 2015 Share #58 Posted July 22, 2015 ...and I assume that goes for the old fashioned delicate/expensive to make rangefinder too? Probably :-) Especially if lack of quality control means some are delivered out of adjustment... Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 22, 2015 Share #59 Posted July 22, 2015 There is no EVF that is fully real time. You can't beat the speed of light bouncing off a mirror. EVF is ok for landscapes and slow moving action, but it won't cut it for sports etc. Indeed, but you can't buy a dslr that is easy to manual focus anymore, my Nikon is no match for my FM2 of F90. Alright for point and shoot af ;-) Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gyoung Posted July 22, 2015 Share #60 Posted July 22, 2015 There is no EVF that is fully real time. You can't beat the speed of light bouncing off a mirror. EVF is ok for landscapes and slow moving action, but it won't cut it for sports etc. Ok, so you're viewing in real time, but lose the viewfinder a split second before the shutter fires. That's always been the advantage of the rangefinder,although its not of real significance Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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