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M6 advice: are late examples improved, better?


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Could experienced M6 users please identify improvements made to this camera, in internal design, materials or features, during its production run? My son is interested in buying an M6, and an experienced technician advises that late examples close to the 2,000,000 serial number incorporate several improvements.

The late examples are apparently also better starting points for upgrading the viewfinder to an M7 style, if flare is a problem (is it?).

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Mine was early, bought when new. During service a few years ago the meter circuit was replaced with a later version (due to prior battery leakage). The tech also found a later mod to increase low light sensitivity a bit, I don't think the improvements were too significant over the production life. I've been very happy with my early original.

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It's a mixed bag, and also depends on who you talk to.  Some of the repair techs insist the M6 was cheapened by costcutting as time went on.  I had several M6's from various times and they were all equally reliable.  Today the latest of them is going on 20 years old, so my feeling is the most important factor at this point is how well it was cared for and when (or if) it has been overhauled and by whom.  But here TTBOMK is a rundown of the more outstanding changes during the long production run:

 

-The very first M6's lacked the strap-rub protectors and rubber-coated eyepiece that doesn't scratch eyeglasses.  (The latter is an easy retrofit, the former requires changing the top plate).

-Early M6's had a slightly different meter circuit (the LED triangles extinguished when the exposure range was exceeded whereas later ones blink).  The early circuit is no longer obtainable but can be replaced with the later one if it goes bad.

-Early M6's had a tab on the lock inside the baseplate that opens the Leitz reloadable film cassettes

-Early M6's had slightly different light baffles inside the throat (I don't recall what the consequence of that was).  

-There were different engravings over the years, purely cosmetic.

-The very last of them used 2 small internal screws to affix the strap lugs, vs a single rivet.  The reason was to help prevent them from twisting and loosening (I never had that happen with the early ones though).

 

I probably missed a bunch of other minor things.  And AFAIK all of them are equally amenable to the anti-flare rangefinder modification.   

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Not sure what the upgrade to new VF will cost but

IMO prices of M7 used have dropped so much that upgrading to a new VF does not make sense on a used M6. If you want a better VF just sell the M6 and buy a used M7. Let him enjoy the M6 until then. The M6 (even early version) is a great camera.

 

BTW:

If you worry about VF issues, let him buy a M2 - M4 and give it a CLA to ensure perfect function. It even makes a better starter camera because it does not have an internal meter. Giving the M6 a CLA and calculating that cost in before buying is probably also a good idea.

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Thank you "bocaburger" and other responders for useful information. It sounds like any serviced M6 is a good, reliable camera.

I bought my son a serviced M3 (with type 2 Summicron 50cm, and working MR Leicameter) ) at Christmas, so he already appreciates the excellent viewfinder, functionality and results with that classic Leica. His film pictures on journalism assignments have converted him to a film + digital Leica user. Even though it means carrying an extra body (with his M8 and M9) he appreciates the quality results using (mostly) Ilford ISO400 film.

Eventually he wants a good M6 (not an electronic M7), primarily because its meter will make field use a bit easier. But he will never stop using his M3. He has never taken a flash picture in his life, so a TTL version would be wasted for him.

Other user feedback about M6 features and improvements will be appreciated.

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 In addition to enhanced flash capabilities the meter in the M6 TTL has a central dot which glows steadily to indicate proper exposure.  Equal brightness of the over/under arrows was the indicator for earlier versions of the M6.  Both the M6 TTL and the M7 have a shutter speed dial which much larger and turns in the opposite direction of every other film M.  When the MP was introduced, there were modifications to the viewfinder to help reduce the flare induced by a strong front or side light in certain situations.  The upgrade included multicoated finder windows which is not often included with finder upgrades from independent technicians.  There were also improvements made to the shutter seals with the MP.  A majority of M6 cameras had the zinc top plates and can be subject to oxidation, causing bubbling under the finish.  It has no impact on how the camera preforms and can sometimes result in finding a nice M6 at a bargain price.  Some users like the larger shutter speed dial of the TTL both because it rotates in the direction of the meter arrows and it is easily turned while the camera is at eye level.  Some find the the dial annoying.  I have a M6 TTL and a M2.  I like the convenience of the bigger dial when using the TTL metering and since I'm using a hand held meter with the M2 the direction the shutter speed dial rotates is inconsequential.  Early versions lacked the rubber bumpers to keep the strap from rubbing on the top plate and did not have the rubber ring around the eye piece to reduce scratching eyeglasses.  Also early versions were marked Leica M6 and a red dot on the front with Wetzlar engraved on the top plate.  When Leica moved to Solms the Leica disappeared from the front leaving a number of so called big M6 cameras.  The Leica M6 markings on the front returned after a short time.  If the M4-2 was the camera that saved Leica, the M6 was the one that kept it viable.  They are second in production number to the M3 and a great camera to use upgraded or not.  

Edited by madNbad
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As mentioned by madNbad M6 TTL has a speed dial that turns in opposite direction. This is the same direction as all digital M's and might be more convenient to use mixed with a digital body than the smaller - opposite direction dial of M6 and below...

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I have not seen late M6 bodies (late 1990's) that show bad cases of Zinc corrosion (showing as bubbles under the chrome plating of the camera body).

During later production the used zinc alloy to cast the top deck and it's plating process may have been tuned further to improve durability and prevent it from showing corrosion as some early camera bodies show (the M6 got a bad reputation for this very issue, yet not all M6 versions over the years are affected).

 

I would go personally for a late "classic" (non TTL) M6 - these have all improvements one could want and share the same slender, compact body size and shutter speed dial with the Leica M3 your son is familiar with.

 

I have one of those late M6 bodies myself and to much surprise it's film advance is by far the smoothest and most perfect from any film M I have ever tried (including my own M3, M2, M7 and MP).

Much has been written on the net that the M3 or MP or [place any Leica body name here] is the smoothest of them all for this or that reason, yet somehow that one M6 beats the critics ;-)

 

These are truly fine cameras and I would not be worried about any version of them actually. The viewfinder fix at some point should be considered as the viewfinder in my opinion is the M6 camera's biggest weakness (compared to better Leica finders in earlier and later cameras, yet it still is a fantastic finder nevertheless).

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If rangefinder flare is an issue, Leicagoodies sells a small piece of what looks like semi-transparent plastic that's supposed to fix the problem. I have three M6s, including a very early one with no strap guards and the metal eyepiece and I've just learned to cope with the very occasional problem. All are working cameras and in regular use.

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I had a M6 TTL and now have one of the very last M6 classic cameras. Rangefinder flare is indeed an issue on the M6 TTL, unless it has been rectified by a range/viewfinder change, the classic M6 does not suffer in my experience.

 

I find my M6 well built and it is a nice camera, although not as smooth as a well-set up M4.

Given the larger size and limited advantage of the TTL, I would go for a late (because of Zinc Corrosion)  M6 classic.The electronics are said to be more reliable on the latere examples too.

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If rangefinder flare is an issue, Leicagoodies sells a small piece of what looks like semi-transparent plastic that's supposed to fix the problem. I have three M6s, including a very early one with no strap guards and the metal eyepiece and I've just learned to cope with the very occasional problem. All are working cameras and in regular use.

I can guarantee you, if the temperature gets over 25 Centigrade, that piece of polarizing foil will drop off.

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Given the larger size and limited advantage of the TTL,

Depending on what kind of photography you do, TTL-controlled flash can be a significant advantage, only present on the M6TTL and M7.  The direction of the speed control in the same direction as the aperture and the arrows of the light meter may also be a significant advantage, a matter of personal preference: to me a clear - because logical - improvement. The larger size is a very slightly taller top-plate - this is insignificant to me.   The increased size and weight of the M240 are in a wholly different (and infinitely more apparent) category.

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If you plan to use the 50mm DR, then the M6 classic is a better option.  The top plate of the M6 TTL is too tall to accommodate the goggles, but you can remove the post behind the goggles so that it will fit.  The larger shutter speed dial on the M6 TTL makes it harder adjust with goggles attached.  The only downside to the M6 classic TTL IMO, as others have mentioned, is the dirrection of the shutter speed dial which always threw me off when switching between a digital M body and the classic M6.

 

I had both a classic and a TTL M6 and the flare was about the same.  Ended up trading both for an MP, which I plan to keep and pass down (if I'm lucky).

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I'm not saying it isn't nice to have a flare free focusing patch, but simply shifting your eye or turning the camera slightly to focus on something else a similar distance away usually sorts the problem out without needing to buy an MP. Given the Leica focusing system has to resort to focusing on things at the distance you want in focus and then recomposing it is hardly a chore, unless all your pictures are focused and composed with the main subject dead centre in the frame.

 

An M6 of any age is a great camera.

 

 

Steve

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I bought my M6 TTL .85 new in 1998.  It has never been serviced, even though it is 17 years old and been used a fair amount.  The black chrome still looks almost new, just a bit of gray showing through in one location.  Flair has never been an issue either, and I do wear glasses.  Is it better or worse than earlier versions, I doubt it, but I have nothing to base my option on, since this is my only Leica.  I love it and will never get rid of it.  I think any M6 in good shape will serve you well for years to come.  Good luck on your search. 

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Depending on what kind of photography you do, TTL-controlled flash can be a significant advantage, only present on the M6TTL and M7.  The direction of the speed control in the same direction as the aperture and the arrows of the light meter may also be a significant advantage, a matter of personal preference: to me a clear - because logical - improvement. The larger size is a very slightly taller top-plate - this is insignificant to me.   The increased size and weight of the M240 are in a wholly different (and infinitely more apparent) category.

I find very little advantage in TTL flash over the A setting on the flash, except for Macro and Teleflash, both disciplines where the M6 does not excel.

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except for Macro and Teleflash, both disciplines where the M6 does not excel.

Sounds like you see the glass half empty here, and I half full.  To take another example, does the lack of off-centre focus magnification make the M240s EVF of limited advantage ('might as well use the rangefinder...'), and justify tasks where EVF-focusing is handy to be waved off as disciplines where anyway no Leica excels?  Here again I see the glass half full.  Anyway, whether you see it as worthwhile or not, TTL flash is at least a real feature, and in the world of Leica where aesthetic changes are often marketed as 'upgrades', that's saying a lot.

Edited by M9reno
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It is always a balance of appreciation by the individual user. In the balancing of tradeoffs I see the M 6 Classic as the best compromise, but obviously others may have a different opinion. Actually I would favour either an M4 or M7 or an MA over any M6.

Come to think of it, the M6J is rather nice as well. Hmmm...

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I'm not saying it isn't nice to have a flare free focusing patch, but simply shifting your eye or turning the camera slightly to focus on something else a similar distance away usually sorts the problem out without needing to buy an MP. Given the Leica focusing system has to resort to focusing on things at the distance you want in focus and then recomposing it is hardly a chore, unless all your pictures are focused and composed with the main subject dead centre in the frame.

 

An M6 of any age is a great camera.

 

 

Steve

 

Unfortunately the flare always catches me in the worst situations.

One such situation is when shooting close up portraits with hot lights - the lights will induce finder flare and apart from the subject there is nowhere else to focus and recompose that close up.

Next comes that you might be using a longer, faster lens which already demands all your concentration on focussing precisely, …

 

Finder flare for some people is an issue while others can easily live with it.

When I know flare is going to be an issue I surely don't grab me M6 but take the MP or a digital instead just for this reason.

When my late M6 classic needs any other mechanical attention, a finder upgrade is a sure thing on the list to do during that work.

I recommend anyone who is in the process of finding a M6 to rather pay 100-200 EUR more for a sample which has this work already done over an otherwise comparable sample as it is worth it in my opinion.

 

When I used my M6 primarily the first two years I had it, I used a workaround to reduce the finder flare:

cut a small rectangle of vinyl electricians tape about 1/3 the surface area of the light collection window and stick it right center on the light collection window.

This will cut down flare immensely and will let you focus properly but it will also dim down the frame lines.

 

I preferred the clear focussing patch with the dim frame lines over not being able to focus. It works as a crude polarizer as it blocks some of the light that will hit the window at an angle and reflect into the RF optics, while light that is directed from straight ahead slips through around the edges of the blacked out patch and will still light the frame lines somewhat.

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Finder flare for some people is an issue while others can easily live with it.

 

 

I appreciate that your experience of viewfinder flare is at the extreme end of the scale.  But 'one swallow does not make a Spring', and neither does one person's particular way of working make viewfinder fixes necessary. Perhaps somebody reads an off the cuff remark about viewfinder flare and repeats it out of context, then two more read that, and before long you get all and sundry worrying about viewfinder flare, and worse than that people who do own an M6 become panicked about it, all for a 'problem' that may or may not ever affect them. It doesn't take long on the internet for minor idiosyncrasies to be inflated into major problems based on the individual or the 'I' principle, just look at almost any thread at the top of any camera forum. 

 

Steve

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