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Sell Summicron 35mm 'Bokeh King' for Summilux w/Infintity Lock?


jaques

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I know these types of threads are pretty subjective... like you know what I should do, right? but:

 

I have the 35mm pre-asph V3(?) Bokeh King lens- It is really a great lens- I love it. However I have the chance to sell it- add a few hundred dollars of my own and get a V1 Canadian Summilux with the infinity lock. The Summilux will need to be modified to focus to infinity on the digital M's.

 

Should I do it? I understand the early Summilux is soft wide open and prone to flaring and more- but it does have a wonderful glow- and just looks so good too! The Bokeh king is a superb lens- though the build quality is not on a par with earlier Leica lenses. The summilux looks better made... I think the price I can get on the summilux is also very good considering it is has the infinity lock- these versions seem to be more collectible. The one I am looking at is being offered at more of the standard summilux rate...

 

I have read that the Voigtlander 35 1.4 is as good as the summilux- is this true? I had one once and it was well made but focus was a bt off so I sold it before I used it much.

 

a virtual penny for your thoughts.

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Yep, it IS a subjective thing. Go with your heart.

Me? I'd keep with the Summicron, and you said it yourself, you love it.

You'll get 50 differing answers from 50 different posters, but in the end it is you that needs to decide.

Can't go wrong either way as far as I can see.

Gary

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It's almost always a really big mistake to sell something you love, whatever it may be.

Can you not find the funds to acquire the Lux lens in some other way...rob a bank, get a credit card, sell something else?

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Personally I would do it in a heartbeat.

 

BUT - as has been mentioned, this is not an easy trade that can be measured in numbers but a trade ENTIRELY subjective, mainly based on which of the two lens' character you like best and which of the two lenses features you need more (both do have quite a few important differences functionally).

 

The easy bit:

 

- close focus (Summicron does 0.7m, Summilux does something ~0.9-1.0m) Summicron wins

- filter, use of (Summicron takes E39 screw in filters and plenty of different lens hoods form Leica clip on versions to screw in, Summilux takes only drop in filters into a designated 12504 split lens hood with integrated filter holder) Summicron wins

- flare behavior (the pre ASPH Summilux 35mm is the prototype lens for most temperamental behavior in critical lighting situations, inducing flare and ghosts) Summicron wins

 

Still, personally I would decide in a split second for the pre ASPH Summilux with infinity lock (I have one myself) and would sell the Summicron in a heartbeat (I had one).

I have never been a big fan in how the Summicron 35 looks I have to add and prefer any of a large number of other 35mm lenses over it (the pre ASPH Summilux among them despite it's shortcomings).

 

If you did not already verified that the Summilux must be modified to fit the digital M bodies, chances are you might not have to - not all of these automatically have been made with a rear lens shroud so deep it will collide and only a number of them need modification (one of my two 35mm pre ASPH Summilux lenses needed the rear element shroud machined, the other didn't.

 

Good luck with the decision and if you can, you really, really should try both lenses side by side before deciding, preferably in lighting situations where the characteristics are easily seen.

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thanks everyone for your answers. I like your reasoning Menos- you point out 3 points where the Summicron wins- but then suggest I jump in and grab the summilux!

 

I think I will... I should add though- I am a (pre-asph) lens hoarder- I already have the V1 summicron with goggles- and the V2 summicron! So its not lieke I will be without my 35 summicrons options!

 

Also- the other day I was lucky enough to find the somehwat rare two part Summilux hood for only 25$ AUD so it seems like it is is fate I get the lens to match it...

 

My V1 goggled summicron is really awesome (read razor SHARP!) and I use it more than the Bokeh King anyhows. Of the 3 summicrons I own the V3 Bokeh King is probably the most sought after due to the 'Bokeh King' street cred- and for this reason I can sell it for just a little less than the Lux will cost. However it does have something special- the 'bokeh king' name is not all hot air- the lens has a certain something.

 

The lens does need modification-Does anyone know what Leica will charge to have the summilux lens modified for infinity focus on an M Digital? I have read it is a pretty simple procedure.

Edited by jaques
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Jaques,

If you have a v1 Summicron, you are covered with the .7m minimum focus distance ;-)

If you have a v1 Summicron, you might also be already familiar with a very distinct flare/ ghosting behavior the v1 Summicron and the Summilux pre ASPH share in similar character (the Summilux pre ASPH somewhat amplifies this bad (or characterful, depending on if you are a half full or half empty glass kind of person) trait.

 

Very, very honestly, since I received a beautiful v1 Summicron, I hardly ever touched my pre ASPH Summilux samples any longer - they share a few similarities in imaging, yet only the Summilux does have this very distinct rendering wide open from any such lens.

 

Again, my reasoning was more of telling what I would do - very subjective (as I have even disclosed my feelings about the two lenses in question).

 

I do not know what Leica Wetzlar would charge for the modification and personally I would never carry this work to Leica Wetzlar but just to the first, trusted shop close by (except the lens needs other attention).

 

The actual modification involves (properly done) removal of the lens mount, removal of the focus helicoid, removal of the rear lens shroud from the optical cell (held by a small screw, machining of the rear lens shroud to proper dimension, repainting of machined surface, reassembly, test, finish).

Any good lens tech who works clean and with respect to such vintage gems is good to do this.

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Nope, don't do it.

 

If you have the version 4 bokeh king lens, I would keep that one for the color rendition, sharpness, bokeh, and E39 filter flexibility.  You can find the Summiluxes any day on eBay, and even find a good deal if you are patient.

 

Just my subjective viewpoint.

 

Eric

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I would keep both. Although the optical formula appears the same the V4 has much better color contrast.

 

Summilux-M with infinity lock is actually quite rare. Black paint lock was '61 to '66, chrome lock '66-69. About 1,000 total without goggles.

Edited by a911s
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I would like to keep both- but really- each time I get another 35mm I say to myself- it's ok- I will sell one of the others... Only I can't/don't do it. At this point- if I bring in the Summilux one of the other 3 HAS to go. Perhaps the V2 should go on the block? I love the build of that lens- and the size- the thing is a jewel. Photos are very good- though the out of focus areas are kind of 'steamy'. Distinctively so- but I prefer the flashier colours of the Bokeh King. I don't think I could sell the goggled one- it is so damn good. Build quality is the best of the 3 by some margin.

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Yes, the build quality of these early Summicron 35mm (and Summaron) lenses is indeed bordering to legendary.

 

Jaques, as you describe it, it truly sounds you should do everything possible to keep the v4 Summicron, as you describe it clearly as a lens you really like.

 

You should know that any count under 5 of lenses of the same focal length is entirely excusable if the lenses in question have at least one distinct feature setting them apart from the others ;-)

 

Thanks a911s for the info on the infinity lock Summilux - I was not aware only 1000 have been made.

Strangely from the very beginning since I have mine it somehow felt special to me, although I much prefer other 35mm lenses for their practicality and also their imaging character (biggest favorite: Konica UC-Hex, closely followed by the 35/1.4 ASPH).

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You can find the Summiluxes any day on eBay, and even find a good deal if you are patient.

Perhaps, but I've owned 3 x Summiluxes and been stupid enough to sell and then have to re-buy. Admittedly the first went when I started out and needed the money for other gear. The second went as digital (SLRs) came in. The third will be a keeper. The Summilux simply attracts me back with its myriad charms. I've regretted selling the Summiluxes but never a Summicron (I have a v.4 being rebuilt at the moment - it had balsam separation of the rear group and I bought it for a song, and I may keep it, but then again I may not) and I've had v.1, v.2 and v.4s in the past.

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I find the versions of the Summilux 35mm confusing, so I'll just describe mine as black, no '35' printed on the side, has an infinity lock and mounts Series VII filters inside the #12504 lens shade. I've had three of these lenses, and still have one. It is my favorite 35mm lens.

 

Mine fits the M9 with no interference at all. Apparently some do have an issue with infinity focus. Try and buy.

 

The locking tab does make it a bit easier to grip when removing the lens, but it is not really needed.

There are, or were, generic versions of the 12504 lens shade, which is a good thing because they

are fragile and dent and distort easily. I can't count how many I've destroyed. (Oh, and not because

I can't count above four. Next is six, right?)

Edited by pico
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Of the 3 summicrons I own the V3 Bokeh King is probably the most sought after due to the 'Bokeh King' street cred- and for this reason I can sell it for just a little less than the Lux will cost. However it does have something special- the 'bokeh king' name is not all hot air- the lens has a certain something.

 

 

You do know that journalist Mike Johnston who coined the term 'Bokeh King' has since called this into question? In originally talking about the lens he described it as the King of Bokeh at f/4, not at an aperture anybody would normally use to describe Bokeh. So he is laughing about it, and a bit embarrassed, that Leica lovers have mangled the meaning so much to elevate the lens into something it isn't. 

 

Steve

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actually menos- I have to admit- I am already well past the 5 focal length threshold for 35mm... I am spoilt! the 35 1.2 V2 CV lens means its not like I need the close focusing of my v1 summicron- or the fast apperture of the summilux... and for size the LTM summaron cant be beat by much B)

 

I heard the Bokeh King legend had a faulty basis- but maybe it never would have stuck if their wasn't a kernel of truth in there somewhere- wide open I like the Bokeh:

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 
Edited by jaques
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as I just figured out how to link to images I have previously uploaded here is one from my V1 goggled Summicron:

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 
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and here from my V2 summicron:

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 
 
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No.     Unless you wish to buy the new and try it out and then decide.   

 

I tried a Lux in the 80`s  at the largest Leica dealer in the USA.  I was not impressed with wide open performance.  Lots of flair which everyone will admit to and not terribly sharp.   Leica Photography also did a comparison and conclusion was similar.

 

If you have a nice Summicron,  keep it as they are fairly hard to replace in nice condition.  The trade is chasing moonbeams.

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The CV 35mm f1.4 SC (single coated, not multi coated version) is more or less a copy of the Summilux, and much cheaper. I can't guarantee it would be exactly the same thing, but perhaps it is an option that means you don't need to sell your 'Bokeh King' ?

 

Steve

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All the talk of "creamy bokeh"  reminds me of wine talk, and "silky tannins."  Maybe we could start using terms like "garrigue" when talking about lenses. It would make as much sense as bokeh king,  a term that has enriched a thousand dealers.  I was hard pressed to see any different when I replaced my V3 with a V4.  They are all pretty good. 

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