thebarnman Posted May 30, 2015 Share #1 Posted May 30, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I know there's slower films that can take full advantage of the APO 50, but I haven't seen any examples. If you have any samples, or in the future decide to try the APO 50 with film, please share. Currently I'm thinking about getting a M7 (to compliment my R9) and I'm interested to see how film can take advantage of the APO 50. Even faster films will show off the characteristic of the new APO 50. Even if scans cannot completely show the full resolution of the film, or all the sharpness the film can capture from the APO 50, at least there's the characteristic that would shine through. By the way, I normally shoot transparency film or B&W negatives and have them reversed processed as B&W transparencies to be displayed from a Leica slide projector with Leica lens. Films I know that can take advantage of the APO 50 lens resolution...Rollei RPX 25, Rollei Retro 80s, Rollei ATP (32 iso,) Svema64, Foma-R 100 iso and Ilford PanF 50 iso Of course, Fuji Velvia and Provia (transparency films) would also be stunning with the APO 50. I believe even Tri-x can take full advantage of it's characteristics even if it may not capable of displaying it's full resolution. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted May 30, 2015 Posted May 30, 2015 Hi thebarnman, Take a look here APO 50 FILM images. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Ai_Print Posted May 30, 2015 Share #2 Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) I'm not sure where you are located but here in the U.S. One can rent the 50 Apo from lensrentals.com. That would be my suggestion. As far as using it on film, if there is one thing I have found in using both film and digital mediums, it is that some lenses that are great on film are not so great on digital, but every lens I have ever tried that is great on digital shows equally as spectacular results on film as it does on digital. In short, a great lens optimized for digital is not lost on film. Contrary to what is often read on the Internet, there are several films as you mention above that will easily show much if not all the fine details of a lens like the 50 Apo and of course, if it has special rendering like the noct. or other glass, that will show up right away as well. I'm not sure for me personally the 50 Apo is a lens worth getting as I prefer a 35 so I am happy with my current 50/2 and also the price over something like the 50 lux asph is a bit much to swallow. All that said, I have a friend who owns the Apo and I might give it a try one day to see what this lens is all about. Edited May 30, 2015 by Ai_Print 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
padam Posted May 30, 2015 Share #3 Posted May 30, 2015 http://blog.yokokanno.com/?eid=521 http://blog.yokokanno.com/?eid=520 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted May 30, 2015 Share #4 Posted May 30, 2015 http://blog.yokokanno.com/?eid=521 http://blog.yokokanno.com/?eid=520 That's a perfect reason why one would really need to check the lens out in person, those images fall well short of the photographic situations one would expect this lens to excel in. I now see the OP is in AZ, rent that sucker, give it a whirl. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 30, 2015 Share #5 Posted May 30, 2015 (edited) I share your interest! Mine will be here next week. Apart from the M240 & Monochrom v1, I plan on taking it out with some Ektar 100 in the M7 (I rarely use slower film than that nowadays) I'll report back to this thread with standardised comparisons on film of the 2.0/50 APO-Summicron and 1.4/50 Summilux ASPH FLE (yes, we know it's an APO but really should have been named as such )as soon as I can. Edited May 30, 2015 by MarkP 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ai_Print Posted May 31, 2015 Share #6 Posted May 31, 2015 (edited) Off topic, I know the 50 Apo is supposed to achieve optical "perfection" at 5.6 but what is it's optimum focus setting at that f-stop? I have a project I am thinking of using it on but ideally most of the subjects would be at 3-5 feet. Edited May 31, 2015 by Ai_Print Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share #7 Posted May 31, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) ...a great lens optimized for digital is not lost on film. Contrary to what is often read on the Internet, there are several films as you mention above that will easily show much if not all the fine details of a lens like the 50 Apo and of course, if it has special rendering like the noct. or other glass, that will show up right away as well. Hi Ai_Print, I'm really glad you and others shined through for me. Not knowing where to post this subject, I first tried the film forum http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245648-apo-50-film-images/ only to get replies that were besides the point. So I posted the topic here in this Leica M Lens forum and crossed my fingers. I figured since the M lenses can be used with both film and digital M bodies, I thought why not. And, the response is good! Thank you for concurring with me on how the qualities of the 50 APO can surely transfer over to film. And as time goes on, there will be more enthusiasts who will be utilizing a whole new line (when available) of APO lenses with their Leica film bodies. I now see the OP is in AZ, rent that sucker, give it a whirl. I'm glad you were able to find my location! Since I currently don't have a M body, the renting option will have to wait. However, I'm really happy to learn about lensrentals.com Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted May 31, 2015 Author Share #8 Posted May 31, 2015 http://blog.yokokanno.com/?eid=521 http://blog.yokokanno.com/?eid=520 Thanks for sharing. This is the first I've seen of the APO 50 on film. Of all the images, there's only about two (at most) that show the characteristics of the lens. For a site that's looks to be reviewing the APO 2.0/50 lens, I'm really surprised of the editing and quality of the scans. I can't wait to see MarkP's results. I share your interest! Mine will be here next week. Apart from the M240 & Monochrom v1, I plan on taking it out with some Ektar 100 in the M7 (I rarely use slower film than that nowadays) I'll report back to this thread with standardised comparisons on film of the 2.0/50 APO-Summicron and 1.4/50 Summilux ASPH FLE (yes, we know it's an APO but really should have been named as such )as soon as I can. As I just mentioned, I can't wait to see the images. You, and others who want to share film images taken with the 50 APO lens; please do. Though I hope you take your time, as I'm sure the results will be worth waiting for. And, I'm sure the results with Ektar 100 will be stunning...I bet close to a medium format look. Slightly off topic, a search results for Ektar and Leica https://www.flickr.com/search/?tags=ektar%2C%20leica&advanced=1 demonstrates how Ektar is an excellent choice. Now you have me wondering. First, I had no idea the 1.4/50 Summilux ASPH is also a APO lens, with possibly the same performance as the 2.0/50 APO. So does this mean my 90mm f/2 APO-Summicron-R ASPH lens has the same type of performance as the new APO 50 m? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellie Posted May 31, 2015 Share #9 Posted May 31, 2015 Hi, I think to really compare the resolution of APO 50 (film/digital) it would need good conditions and a tripod. I got this lens Friday for use on my M7, M9P and future M cameras too. I will get the first rolls back next week but I don't use the fine grain film mentioned above. It was raining yesterday so I was joggling an umbrella while taking two rolls handheld. I will get some more today at a museum. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245731-apo-50-film-images/?do=findComment&comment=2824982'>More sharing options...
timde Posted May 31, 2015 Share #10 Posted May 31, 2015 After running a roll of Ektar 100 through an old Minolta CLE, using a Voigtländer 40mm lens, I also started to wonder the same thing - would I get better results with an APO 50? I found the images from the aforementioned combination to be OK, however viewing at A4 size I noticed they all benefited from a bit of sharpening. Does it make any sense to use the very expensive lens on Film? Let see. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted May 31, 2015 Share #11 Posted May 31, 2015 Does it make any sense to use the very expensive lens on Film? Let see. I'm not sure that I share this idea that there is some kind of 'quality' cap with film that, by implication, is lower than digital and that there is no point using the latest (usually most expensive) lenses. Film has obviously been around for far longer than digital and during this time (which includes now) photographers have been able to benefit from developments in lens technology and optical design. Even with comparatively low resolution (at least grainy) ISO 400 film I readily see differences in sharpness and character between the various lenses I own, including between fine lenses of the same generation like the 35 Summarit and a modern optical masterpiece like the current 35 Summilux. There is no reason to think that money spent on a 50 APO-Summicron is, in any way, going to be money wasted. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
timde Posted May 31, 2015 Share #12 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm not sure that I share this idea that there is some kind of 'quality' cap with film that, by implication, is lower than digital and that there is no point using the latest (usually most expensive) lenses. Its not an idea, rather a question. What I see from one roll of Ektar is better in many ways than what I get from Digital ... and so I'm personally wondering if a nice M-A combined with 50 APO is actually going to be really a really great combination that will last 40 years. From your response and those of others it seems like it could be a good idea! The loss in value of digital equipment is so great that this alternate path is most interesting, at least for the type of photography I use a Rangefinder for. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted May 31, 2015 Share #13 Posted May 31, 2015 I'll obviously compare both lenses with Ektar 100 at all matching apertures, using a tripod and cable release (or 12 sec delay timer). If I can I'll throw in the 2.8/50 Elmar-M and maybe the MATE just @50mm. I see no point comparing my 1.0/50 Noctilux as it's too different. Yes the following M-lenses are indeed all APOs: 1.4/50 Summilux ASPH, 2.0/75 APO-Summicron ASPH, 2.0/90 APO-Summicron ASPH, 3.4/135 APO-Telyt ASPH and the 2.0/50 APO-Summicron. But I don't believe they are corrected to quite the same level as the Summicron. However the 75 and 135 are particularly very impressive. Ektar is indeed a lovely film: M7 & Ektar 100, 28mm MATE & 35mm Summilux ASPH (FLE) - sorry no 50's yet! Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/245731-apo-50-film-images/?do=findComment&comment=2825022'>More sharing options...
stephen.w Posted May 31, 2015 Share #14 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm looking at the forum on my phone, so can't provide a link, but there was an interesting thread in the film M forum a few months back about the 50 APO on film (Ektar in the examples posted) - worth a search. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clickie McPete Posted May 31, 2015 Share #15 Posted May 31, 2015 I'm testing one right now on my M7. I need to pick up a ND filter and some slower speed rolls though to take advantage of the wider apertures in brighter conditions. As one reviewer commented, it does seem a shame to shoot this lens at anything beyond f8. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clickie McPete Posted June 1, 2015 Share #16 Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Less than perfect light today and some very expired Tmax 100, but a fun test nevertheless. Hope these aren't too big to post... Edited June 1, 2015 by Clickie McPete 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clickie McPete Posted June 1, 2015 Share #17 Posted June 1, 2015 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clickie McPete Posted June 1, 2015 Share #18 Posted June 1, 2015 (edited) Two more, stopped down to about f8 maybe. Edited June 1, 2015 by Clickie McPete 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share #19 Posted June 1, 2015 I'm not sure that I share this idea that there is some kind of 'quality' cap with film that, by implication, is lower than digital and that there is no point using the latest (usually most expensive) lenses...There is no reason to think that money spent on a 50 APO-Summicron is, in any way, going to be money wasted. Very nicely said. I've read there is about 23 million pixels or so worth of information on a frame of 35mm B&W film. I've also read there's a potential "400 megapixel" http://petapixel.com/2014/12/18/comparing-image-quality-film-digital/ worth of information that can be recorded onto one frame of Adox CMS 20 B&W film. So film is more than capable of recording faithfully the information coming from a lens such as the APO 50. Also, with color film; there is a complete R, G and B resolution at every point. That is very different than how a digital sensor has to guess at every point what the color should be through a filter (with a sensor that can only record B&W values) to create color images and yet, a digital camera is very capable of outputting enough information to show off the resolution and characteristics of the new APO 50 lens. This is even more apparent with the Leica MM. With that in mind, I believe film is even more capable than digital of displaying the full potential of the APO 50, especially color film. The issue from what I've seen posted so far is exactly what others have been saying. There seems to be a loss of information originally captured on film when it comes to the digital transfer. Therefore the hardest part of showcasing APO 50 FILM images, is with the scanning. The good news is there are more images and examples to come. And, I think someone will come up with a technique, a workflow per say for others to follow that will make it simple to faithfully showcase digitally what was caught on film. Personally, I think this is going to happen very soon. For those who are so inclined, it might be helpful to provide a link (such as Flickr) to a higher resolution of the same image as they do in the APO 50 images forum. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebarnman Posted June 1, 2015 Author Share #20 Posted June 1, 2015 Its not an idea, rather a question. What I see from one roll of Ektar is better in many ways than what I get from Digital ... and so I'm personally wondering if a nice M-A combined with 50 APO is actually going to be really a really great combination that will last 40 years. From your response and those of others it seems like it could be a good idea! Your comment is absolute. Here's a quote from a website talking about resolution... "each film pixel represents true R, G and B data, not the softer Bayer interpolated data from digital camera sensors. A single-chip 87 MP digital camera still couldn't see details as fine as a piece of 35mm film." The Digital Resolution of Film http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/film-resolution.htm Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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