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Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron 1st Gen


ijcheon

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Dear M-lovers, 

 

I am a total newbie in the world of M. Just today, I bought Leica M3 with very nice price, and now I need get a beautiful lens that could go along with it! I came across Leica 50mm f/2 Summicron Collapsible lens (1st Gen) for US300. Sounds really good deal, but it looks like there a bit of scratch of the lens!! (some of you might have already noticed it :( ) With a bit of research, this lens has been always prone to damage due to a very fine thin coating over the lens. See that little mark near E at Ernst Leitz??? the top right image.

 

17967059685_c1c469a39c_c.jpg

 

I would like find out if this lens it worth it. Some people say the scratch could affect the light. hmm I honestly don't have a lot of experience in Photography so I could really use your help! 

 

 

Thanks

 

Jay

Edited by ijcheon
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Generally speaking, small, single scratches or areas of scuffed coating are unlikely to produce any noticeable effect on the images produced by such a lens. A myriad of small scratches (due to over enthusiastic cleaning) or large areas of coating damage will probably reduce the contrast due to the resulting increase in veiling flare. Looks like (not so easy to see from the posted pix) a small area of coating damage to me and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest to own or use such a lens. $300 sounds ok for an otherwise clean lens to me, but you might use the damage as a haggling point I suppose, as it will affect resale value.

 

And FWIW you might be interested to know that I once owned a Pentax lens with a small but very distinct scratch on the front element. I dabbed a black felt pen onto the scratch and wiped the excess ink off and never had any problems with the lens as flare was no longer increased and the black mark was not imaged as it could not be. I'm not sure that I'd do this on what appears to be a light mark on the Summicron, but it worked on a significant scratch.

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These early 50 Summicrons have a very soft front element that was prone to scratching. As you mentioned, to make things worse, the coating was also not very durable either. It is difficult to find these without some cleaning marks.

 

Of greater concern is haze on the internal glass that's more likely to degrade the overall image and would be very cautious buying the lens without carefully evaluating it. This is another issue with these lenses, more so it would seem than Nikon or Canon lenses of the same era.

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Thanks all,

 

I just don't dont have enough $$$ for the lens at the moment. trying to find the most efficient one. I guess there is no right answer in choosing the right lens. I just have to try it & live with it. Sounds like there is no real harm taking the lens, if not concerned with the resale value. Hmm, all others posts about choosing the "right" lens does hinder me more than narrowing it down!! will wait for some for replies and decide. 

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These lenses are plentiful on the used market in both M bayonet and LTM screw mount, which can be used on the M3 with an inexpensive adapter (be sure it's for 50mm so it brings up the correct frame lines in the viewfinder).  So there is no reason to grab the first lens that comes along.    As was said, an odd mark or two on the front element will not have a perceptible effect on anything but the price, but internal haze (common) or myriad scratching on the front, or any marks on the rear element, will increase flare and lower contrast.  If you can't handle the lens before buying it, at least be certain you can return it easily for a full and quick refund if it turns out to be less than you expected.  And you will want a hood for it, as even in perfect shape that lens has a greater propensity to flare than the more modern optics.  The period-original hood is a clarinet-bell shape, but any of the later vented 35-50 shades will fit also.   And you might want to invest in a modern B+W MRC (multicoated) UV or protective filter to keep the coating from suffering any further damage from cleaning.

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These lenses are plentiful on the used market in both M bayonet and LTM screw mount, which can be used on the M3 with an inexpensive adapter (be sure it's for 50mm so it brings up the correct frame lines in the viewfinder).  So there is no reason to grab the first lens that comes along.    

 

This is good advice.

 

The OP is from Indonesia; perhaps advisable to source such a lens from a less humid climate as well and avoid the fungus risk. If you are going to buy one sight unseen, best off doing so from a reliable seller who meticulously describe the items they sell, warts and all, so there ought not be any surprises. Well worth the modest price premium. 

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Internal fog is best found with a keychain light or penlight through both sides while looking through the other.  Keep the light off axis a little.    The lens elements should be crystal clear and not be identifiable.  This internal fog is FAR more detrimental to photos than a light scratch.  The tones go muddy.

 

Now for the bad news, the lens, if in perfect condition, is very sharp at small apertures and has lowish contrast at 2 and 2.8.  It was made for slide film which is high contrast.  Look to a later Summicron , 2.8 elmar,  zeiss 50 Planar,  CV HELIAR.  ALL WILL GIVE BETTER PICS .

 

A perfect condition collapsible is worth more than $300, so examine carefully.

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IF the tiny coating mark you refer to is the only optical issue with the lens, I wouldn't be too worried, particularly at this price point. A minty sample, assuming you can find one, would be twice that price. Very nice lens, btw. The hood is mandatory.

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I owned 2 in the past, one was outstanding and the other was mediocre. both had slight haze, but the coatings were intact. If you digitize your shots, the lower contrast of this lens shouldn't be an issue, as post processing can generally resolve that issue. OTOH, if you are seeking a high contrast LENS, Toby's suggestions are good. One year, when I had access to a variety  of Leitz 50s, a series of comparison shots I took of one of my cats sleeping, with the collapsible Summicron, a modern V4 Summicron, a V1 Summilux and a Noctilux - the collapsible Summicron produced the most pleasing result at f2.8. So don't be put off by the rendition discussions unless you do most of your shooting wide open.

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Dear all, I thank you a lot.

 

so today, I had a tour around film camera shops to find the right lens with the right price.. yet,, failed to retrieve the satisfaction. However! not so discouraged. Frankly, I really can't those expensive leica lenses above 1K. Simply because I think it's not worth it with my level of experience and knowledge. Found out today from the dealers that there some lenses I can use instead,,,They are,,

 

Voigtlander 50mm f1.5 with an adapter - approx $US450

Canon 50mm f1.4 or 1.5 with an adapter - approx $US450

Konica M-Hexanon 50mm f/2 - Yet to find out

 

Konica M-Hexanon is the most recommended option. What is the value out there at the moment? And what is your choice?

 

 

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I wouldn't recommend the Canon 50/1.5 if you are new to the M system - I love mine, but it has its own quirks and may be frustrating initially.

The other 3 lenses are excellent IF, again, they are in good condition. The Hexanon (which is likely to be somewhat more expensive than the price you indicated) and the Voigtlander will have a more modern look than the Canon 50/1.4 (the latter, however, is not rare at all and you should be able to get a good copy at a price lower than the one you mention).

Edited by Ecar
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Of those options above I would go with the Voigt, it performs very similarly to the pre-ASPH 50 Summilux.  However if 1K US$ is your upper limit, a 50 Zeiss Planar is about $860 new here, can be had for a couple hundred less used, and that would be my first choice. 

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Or go for a Jupiter 3 or 8, they're very fine not too expensive!

I wouldn't recommend these either to someone who's starting with the M system: too much sample variation, focus issues with the J-3, almost invariably require a thorough CLA, etc.

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I think the original Summicron was, and still is a perfect match for the M3. Seems to be in better condition that most, so I would probably go for that one and maybe get a hood for it as well.

 

Alternatively, if you can get a Canon 50 1.5 for the same price as the 50 1.4, go for it, I guess it is tricky to focus on a rangefinder but the drawing is wonderful. Beware of haze though, the 50 1.5 a lot harder to find and especially in good shape. As others wrote, just use a small LED light or similar to check.

The 50 1.4 LTM (v2) is fairly easy to find in decent shape, because it is a later design with harder coatings.

By the way, in the past I bought a collapsible Summicron as well as a pre-asph Summilux from ebay.

Had to return both because I am picky about the condition (and they were advertised as mint), but the mechanics are a bit more refined on the Leica lenses compared to the Canon ones.

I will be waiting for the right opportunity to enter :)

 

The Hexanon and the Nokton are more modern designs with their own distinctive fingerprints.

 

To be honest, you can't really go wrong with either ;)

Edited by padam
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Thanks to your valuable opinions, I have just bought a Canon 50mm f1.5 type 1 lens for about $100!! finally the camera is taking it's shape and now all I need is the lightmeter for it. I have been studying Sunny 16, borrowing someone's quote : really man work with Sunny 16, hehe, but I think I still need a backup. Considering Voigtlander VCII. Any other recommendation for M3? 

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The VCII is a good meter. I use one on my IIIf. I prefer the Leica MR meter on the M bodies, as it couples to the shutter speed dial. A lot of MR meters are in poor shape though, and the VCII takes modern batteries and is reliable.

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Depending on what you shoot (I'm thinking lots of low light work here), instead of a meter, which may or may not work well in these situations, and memorizing the Sunny 16 nuances, I've found the free New Jiffy Calculator, based on Fred Parker's Ultimate Exposure Computer to be right on the button for over 20 years. I keep a copy in my camera bag, suitcase, and auto glove compartment for whenever I might have a need. Sorry I can't give you a direct link, but if you Google New Jiffy Calculator, you will find the first entry for www.stacken, which has a free PDF copy...unbelievable how good it is.

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I own a mint Collapsible Summicron f2.

I mean mint!

I never clean it, protect with a Leitz UV or !a filter which adds to haze and low contrast.

I love the way it shapes and draws at max and f2.8 on portraits.

I have used it since 1967 on my then new M3.

The low contrast easily adjusted in developing or post scanning in PC.

The joy is the Collapsible feature.

Easily carried under a jacket or shirt.

A 50mm Elmar is sharper and way contrastier.

I think the VC lenses are good value for money.

I have not used Canon RF lenses but am impressed with FD series on AE-1,AE-1P and AV-1.

Not the sharp Leica look of latest but way ahead of my era Leica lenses.

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