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Leica T P mode malfunction of the right dial


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I just purchased a Leica T, last saturday may 2nd, and cannot get the  P mode Program shift function to work by using the right dial, as it is explained in the instructions, and in all other Leica and typical digital cameras.

 

The dealer has been extremely helpful, and requested via email, an answer from Leica Germany, but we do not have an answer from them yet, because the product manager is out this week.

 

Has anybody experienced this same problem , of not being able to use the right dial to override/ shift the settings?

 

The left dial is programmable, as it should be, and when programmed to the  ISO, or EV,  modes, the aperture and shutter speed settings can be shifted, but this is just a" nintendo approach", of going around the issue, to solve the problem the right " P", dial is not performing the original prescribed function.

 

The camera came with the last firmware update, ( I am not sure which is the precise update number.), and an additional necessary update was performed at the store for the lenses I purchased, 18-56 and 55-135.

 

We are inclined to suspect, this seems to be a glitch in one of the " firmware" updates, that is the culprit causing the problem.
 
Help from anybody to solve the riddle is welcomed and appreciated, both by me and the rest of the Leica family, I am sure,,,

 

luis revuelta Coral Gables Florida

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Hi Luis,

      my T camera firmware is currently at 1.3.1 and I've just tried program shift. We have a dull, wet evening here in England and when using ISO 100 (inside, just pointed towards the window) I didn't get a plus or minus sign when using the right dial. I set the ISO to 800 and the plus sign displayed when using the dial but no minus sign. The instruction manual does say that 'To guarantee correct exposure, the adjustment range is limited". This may be why you are not seeing the plus or minus sign.

 

If you are on the latest firmware you could load the previous version (1.3.1) to see if program shift works. If it does, it would seem that the problem is a firmware error, which will no-doubt be fixed at the next update.

If you want me to do further tests tomorrow in good light I will be happy to do so.

 

Mike.

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Hi,

 

today i had the opportunity to try out the T for a few minutes and I also came across this problem, when I returned from playback mode into shooting mode. The program shift didn't work at all. But after half pressing the shutter button for a moment, the right dial worked fine. The attached lens was the 23 Summicron, but I don't know what Firmware was on the T.

 

Regards.

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Good morning and many thanks gentlemen for the responses ans help.

 

I received yesterday a response from a technical advisor in NJ. USA, from the assocoiate at the Coral Gables store with the following information;

 

"We haven't come across this as a common issue here.  I do want to mention something to see if it's helpful at all.  When the camera is first turned on or when it first comes out of sleep mode, the adjustment dial is not ready to activate a change to the settings.  The shutter release button must be tapped first which will then bring up the red corners on the "P" box on screen, indicating that the dial is now active.  If you are already aware of this and still the dial is malfunctioning, it would be recommended to have the camera(s) looked at."

 

While at the store, coincidentally another fellow came in with a new "T", we tested it, and obtained the same results. Seems this is happening, in P mode, but not in A or S modes. Possible theory seems to be according to the staff is; the P mode has to be activated by the triggering of the light meter, hence the tapping of the shutter button.

 

If that ends up being the case and the final response from Germany, I personally do not like this feature, since it takes two steps in a mode that is suppose to be for quicker shooting.

 

Be that as it may, I will surely enjoy the camera, and hope if this indeed is an intended design feature, it is allowed to be overridden in the next " firmware" update.

 

best regards to both and would like to hear again from you guys if you find out any further details on this or other issues.

 

luis 

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I never use P mode, but tested it out just now and I came across the same problem you describe. I'm on firmware 1.310.

 

[edit: I had something here about close focus distance, but that wasn't it at all.]

 

I also noticed that if the camera doesn't think there's enough light (i.e., it's on its slowest shutter speed / ISO combo per current settings), P mode will not allow me to operate the right dial. Only when there's enough light that I have some room to adjust within current settings will it allow for adjustment.

 

I can see why the camera would want to autofocus + meter first if the P-mode adjustment is trying to constrain to allowed combinations.

Edited by julian m
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never used P mode ....... which is just as well as it doesn't function..... as you say ....  :huh:

 

add this to the non-functioning focussing on the T wifi app in anything other than AUTO mode .......  another glitch added when the new firmware was released .....

 

Leica ASKED for T firmware beta testers ...... then released it anyway without pursuing further testing.

 

They would be well advised to get a handful of us to completely thrash any new firmware to see if we can crash it or find 'not so minor' errors like this. 

 

We are free ....... but persistent firmware issues cost money .....

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I have had the T for a year now.  Not sure about all of these glitches, but I I like the camera, I like the way it handles and I get great Photos, and to me is the most important thing. 

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Thank you all, and I like the camera as well,  but the issue is, when one invests money on a product like Leica, the level of excellence and expectation is proportional to the price and reputation.

the store in miami and myself still do not have a response from Germany.

and my hope is Leica does not follow the path of so many companies now a days, that take advantage of the consumerism of society to save on proper research and development of the product before is put out to the gullible market in proper performance as advertised and promised.

again many thanks.

luis

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These are just firmware oversights that weren't spotted with in-house testing .... presumably as the software and testing team is small and probably has multiple development projects on the go.

 

You need high volume and varied usage to pick up these things ....... as is shown by the post here ..... the T has been about for a fair time now and this is the first mention of it on this forum despite it being there at the very least since the last firmware update. 

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Finally heard from the small busy team in Germany,,thanks to a vey helpful staff at the Coral Gables Store, here it is:

 

" I just heard back from the Leica T product manager in Germany and she acknowledged that the issue seems to be a firmware glitch that was not apparent in earlier versions. They are looking into it and hope to address it in the next firmware update. Thank you for your patience."

 

Hopefully with Leica's reputation, that will be the case soon, since I do like the camera.

 

I have to say regardless of team size or multiplicity of projects, any brand  has the responsability, to ,conceptualize, design, analyze, develop, test, and approve a product at various levels, for quality control, before is finally manufactured and sold to the public..

 

What is an increasingly disappointing syndrome in today's world with many companies is, in the rush to go to market, issues are constantly missed and the consumers have accepted their role of paying for a product and become beta testers at their own expense.

 

Be that as it may, 

all, have a great weekend.

luis

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I have to say regardless of team size or multiplicity of projects, any brand  has the responsability, to ,conceptualize, design, analyze, develop, test, and approve a product at various levels, for quality control, before is finally manufactured and sold to the public..

 

What is an increasingly disappointing syndrome in today's world with many companies is, in the rush to go to market, issues are constantly missed and the consumers have accepted their role of paying for a product and become beta testers at their own expense.

 

I think very few companies are at that level of quality control with respect to software (I think the argument could be made that *none* are). Software (and firmware) is such a harder problem than companies are willing to admit. You can't touch it, so it's very hard to judge without a lot of work.

 

As more and more of the physical world becomes controlled by software, it's only going to get worse until we can accept it for the fundamentally difficult engineering problem that it truly is.

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Human's are imperfect beings and Imperfect beings cannot create something that is perfect.  No matter what make of camera one owns, there will be issues.  

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I think very few companies are at that level of quality control with respect to software (I think the argument could be made that *none* are). Software (and firmware) is such a harder problem than companies are willing to admit. You can't touch it, so it's very hard to judge without a lot of work.

 

As more and more of the physical world becomes controlled by software, it's only going to get worse until we can accept it for the fundamentally difficult engineering problem that it truly is.

As a person that does this for a living I can second most of this. It is much harder than many people think. Expecting perfection even from a company like Leica or especially from a small company like Leica with a small engineering team, is totally unrealistic.

 

Part of our solution has been introducing the world to Open Source which in theory allows people to fix their own bugs. There are a lot of arguments building that embedded devices, in particular ones that can connect to the Internet or live on the Internet need to have open source firmware. Briefly, the most compelling argument ends up being that the fact that new product engineering is supported by expected product sales while continuing product support is a cost center leads many companies to practically abandon their products after release doing few if any firmware upgrades. In a world where national, corporate and and personal security is impacted by insecure devices, there needs to be a continuing stream of updates. This requires changes to the economic models around product development and support.

 

For something like the Leica T two radical approaches may be applicable.

1) a subscription model like many software companies are moving to. When you buy the product you get say 2 years of subscription support. Beyond that you pay a monthly or yearly fee. This subscription supports engineering headcount for continued product development as well as bug fixes and updates. I thought that for a company like Leica, this may also integrated with an artistic non technical offering like a T magazine (sort of like their M and S magazine) as well as potentially a set aside for a hardware support contract. Maybe a CLA once a year.

 

2) as Leica transitions from new product engineering to continuing product support they toss the firmware for the the wall and make it open source so that users can update and maintain it themselves. The problem with this idea is that unlike people in the computer industry the users are photographers and often times not programmers, 

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No matter what make of camera one owns, there will be issues.  

 

Within the design parameters, in other words what is given in the camera, that is so not true. I still cannot find issues with my M4 cameras. Enlighten me, please.

 

Okay, what I wrote is about clock-work devices outside of digital.

 

OPEN SOURCE PLEASE! I have to believe people smarter than I am can bust Leica's code. They have not - is that a measure of how many really care? I think so.

 

Best,

Pico

Edited by pico
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  • 2 months later...

Hello T owners.

I am a new owner of this beautiful camera and I am still trying hard to learn.

One thing that I couldn't yet find is how to program (assign) the left dial. For instance, I would like to assign focus peaking to the left dial for my use of manual lenses.

Any tip would be greatly appreciated.

 

Oh; one more thing. Do the use owners get the Leica Passport? If yes, does it come separate from the papers in the box?

Please, forgive my ignorance, and thanks again!

Edited by Louis2
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Hello T owners.

I am a new owner of this beautiful camera and I am still trying hard to learn.

One thing that I couldn't yet find is how to program (assign) the left dial. For instance, I would like to assign focus peaking to the left dial for my use of manual lenses.

Any tip would be greatly appreciated.

 

Oh; one more thing. Do the use owners get the Leica Passport? If yes, does it come separate from the papers in the box?

Please, forgive my ignorance, and thanks again!

Hi Louis, When you have manual function programmed, if you turn the left wheel,the left screen box will show up,tap the box and this should give you the option of focus assist,tap . This should now on screen show when you turn left wheel,turn wheel further to get enhanced magnification. Hope that makes sense. Tony.

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Hi Louis, When you have manual function programmed, if you turn the left wheel,the left screen box will show up,tap the box and this should give you the option of focus assist,tap . This should now on screen show when you turn left wheel,turn wheel further to get enhanced magnification. Hope that makes sense. Tony.

 

Much appreciated, Tony; thanks a lot! Will try! :)

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Much appreciated, Tony; thanks a lot! Will try! :)

Forgot to congratulate you Louis, the T is a good cam, has a few quirks but on the whole i use it more than anything else at the moment. Hope it works well for you. If you have any more questions, just ask. :-) . Tony.

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