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Used MM prices?


peterjcb

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With the announcement of the new MM prices seem to be slipping on the old one on Ebay.

seems that you can pick up a nice example with low shutter actuations for well under $5K.....any idea as to how low the prices will go?
WIll we see prices closer to the used M9 category?

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I think that prices will stay between $4,000 and $5,000 and after the initial rush of people selling their cameras to buy the new one, supply of used and new CCD MMs will dry up. I really believe that especially  if you want an unused MM with a full warranty, now is the right time to buy one. The big price drop already happened. Will you be able to get a heavily used MM for $3,000 at some point in the future? Maybe, nobody knows. I think the question is whether that difference is worth the wait and the risk. My goal is to have gotten a lot of use out of my MM and shot a lot of good photographs by the time prices drop further, then the depreciation doesn't bother me at all.

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My prediction is that, in due course, the old MM follow the same secondary pricing track as the M9, possibly even with more downward pressure b/c as time goes by the color CCD will have more cache than the B&W CCD (b/c it does seem that the DR of the new CMOS sensor has improved).  So $3K in a year or so doesn't sem crazy, at least to me.

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Seems like a good time to buy a used MM.  I suspect that once the initial hype is behind us connected to the new Monochrom type 246, classic Monochrom prices will stabilize, or inch back up in the used market, especially if the camera is discontinued.  That's been the case with the D2, which is now worth twice what I paid for it used. My main reason for believing this is that the new camera will not produce the rich tonal range that the classic Monohcrom with a CCD sensor produces.  Most of us who bought into the classic Monochrom did so because of its unique tonal IQ.  A CMOS sensor cannot replicate this BW tonal richness, and there is only so much one can do with PP.   The images I've seen published, produced by the new camera are not convinicng to me. Those of us who are true fans of the original Monocrhom (along with the M8 and M9) won't budge, we see something the rest of you obviously don't see, and that's O.K., it's a matter of taste and artistry.  

 

It's a good time to buy used if you've been thinking about it.  I paid full price for my Monochrom, and have never regretted it! 

Edited by wilfredo
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Good time to buy a QM2 (or "Leica certified"). Terrible time to sell one that is not Leica certified. But that will no doubt improve as the "demo" supply dries up. The lowest I saw a black QM2 was $4,800. 

 

Dante

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I was in the market for a MM and have seen them around the 4.5K-$5K mark in some of the forums.  If you check sBay, they seem to sit around the $5.5K mark.  Once in a while, you'll find a good one closer to the $4K range. If you are not in a hurry and have patience, you may be able score one (relatively) cheap!

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As I mentioned earlier, I paid full price for mine.  I would have liked to save a few thousand bucks on the purchase of my classic MM, but alas, it was not to be.  Getting one with a warranty at this time, at a lower price, is an excellent deal.  For those to whom the difference between CMOS B&W photos, and CCD B&W photos is fictitious, then it probably wouldn’t make any sense to purchase a used classic Monochrom, except to save some money. 

 

My prediction is that once the M246 hits the streets, and B&W photography lovers start to express their disappointment, used prices on the classic MM will start going back up, at the very least, they won’t drop in price from where they are now.

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Strikes me more like wishful thinking – why will "B&W photography lovers start to express their disappointment" when the new camera "hits the streets"? I don't get why you keep posting about apparent differences in tonality between "CCD B&W and CMOS B&W" – if you are happy with the original M Monochrom why care about what the other camera can do? Be happy with what you have.

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For those to whom the difference between CMOS B&W photos, and CCD B&W photos is fictitious, then it probably wouldn’t make any sense to purchase a used classic Monochrom, except to save some money. 

 

 

This is indeed getting a bit tired.  There are many differences between the two cameras beyond the sensor (including other technical, internal processes).   Even then, photographers will care about actual print results, not electronics debates.  

 

Your underlying sentiment, intended or not, comes across as 'mine is better than yours'…and if not, 'you must have lower standards'.

 

I'd rather hope that Leica keeps turning out better not products, not ones that justify my earlier purchase.  If not, be happy with choice.

 

Jeff

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I don't think it comes down to mine is better than yours. I do see an increasing interest in black and white photography, and both Monochroms are highly interesting and capable cameras at different pricepoints.

 

After all, the files from the MM1 are stunning as well, albeit lagging behind in the Stratoshere of performance - but the Stratosphere is notoriously hard to breathe in.

 

There could be more like a synergy between the two.

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I don't think it comes down to mine is better than yours. I do see an increasing interest in black and white photography, and both Monochroms are highly interesting and capable cameras at different pricepoints.

 

After all, the files from the MM1 are stunning as well, albeit lagging behind in the Stratoshere of performance - but the Stratosphere is notoriously hard to breathe in.

 

There could be more like a synergy between the two.

I think you missed my point.  I agree with your sentiment about 2 capable cameras …Wilfredo comes across differently…repeatedly.  I'll reserve judgment until I make my own prints, and then it will be about my preferences and results, not about good or bad.   Price is besides my point, despite the thread topic.

 

Jeff

Edited by Jeff S
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A Leica reseller in Stockholm has lowered the price for the last MM1 in stock :)

 

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

 

(price in SEK)

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If you think it was hard to tell a difference between the M9 and the M240 in David Farkas comparisons, then I can guarantee you it will be impossible to tell the difference between the two MMs. It will come down to: "which of these two photographs shows more grain at ISO 3,200." Other than that the operational advantages of the M246 will be all you are paying for, which might be enough for some. We can stop the CCD vs. CMOS debate right here because there won't be better tonality with the MM1, there won't be better highlights or more sharpness with the MM2. These comparisons will be all theoretical and reserved to test charts. More than with the color cameras, the look of the photograph will all come down to technique in exposure and processing.

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I thin the difference will be more in workflow, than image quaity.  From what I have seen in the ousted images, the M246 are punchier from the camera and will likely need less PP to get where most people want them.  OTH, original MM files appear more neutral ad. Fat OOC, which will likely require more work, but perhaps leave more potential for manipulation.

 

I'm not sure yet as I've only played with one of Thorsten's DNG files and I benefit from two years' experience in processing MM1 files.

 

I'm not planning to upgrade, not because of any misconceptions that the original MM is better, but rather because I have no want or need for better, and my camera is already paid for and I am thoroughly satisfied with it and it's M-E color companion.  I'll skip the entire M24x generation and perhaps the generation after that.  I've skipped every film M since the M5 as well, so nothing strange here.

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Hi,

 

Thorsten's DNG files are not very revelant. I find his files to be poor quality (exposure ? FW ?)...

Jono's are much better ones and I had the chance to have access to really great DNG from 3200 to 12 500 iso from a reseller who has the camera on test.

What I can tell is that the files are just phenomenal !

Grain at 6400 is OUTSTANDING even at 12 500 I find it usable (I own the MM1 and normally won't use it before 1600 iso, sometimes 3200 but rarely).

I found the grain from the new MM2 to be much smoother, delicate and I think Leica achieved a really much better random alignment of it.

It really is beautiful from what I saw.

High iso ability is the real deal here and I just find this new baby to be a winner (even if I don't plan to change, I don't have gas and I love my triX :-) )...

Edited by MOZ
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I'm selling one that is a few weeks old and has about 60 shots on it with full warranty for $4500 US if that gives you a pretty good idea. My price seems to be a little lower considering it is basically new, but it seems like they are going between 4K and 5K.

Edited by tthorne
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