Is there a right way or wrong way to use the Leica Monochrom

[Jeff S]

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Jeff

Below is my go to work flow when using the MM:

1. Import into Lightroom
2. Go to lens correction, tick both boxes and hit auto
3. Go to Auto exposure and hit that and make fine adjustments to the look I am looking for.
4. Sometimes make some curve adjustments (not always)
5. Export the file to CS6
6. Crop to whatever I want
7. Open SEP
8. 9 times out of 10 hit High Structure (either harsh or soft)
9. Add Signature
10. Save for web
11. Done

I am very open to constructive suggestions if anyone see's a major flaw in my post processing.

 

Sorry but all this is superficial (maybe intentionally) compared to the important issue of how you 'see' the image (and print) and the decisions/judgments you make along the way.  Reminds me of the old joke about the patient complaining to the surgeon about her prices, with the doc explaining that the 'cut' is easy, but knowing where and when to make the cut is the expensive part.

 

I'm not trying to be coy or snooty, but anyone can learn to use software tools; there are countless books, tutorials and workshops on them all.  Creating a style that appeals to you is the critical part.  I've been involved with photography since the early 1970's and I'm still always learning new tricks and tips on my workflow.  (BTW, by workflow I mean every stage from camera to screen to software editing to print to display….every step is vital for a print that 'sings').  My best learning, though, has come from years of looking at others' work (including paintings)…through collecting books and photos, attending shows and exhibits, some workshops along the way, and lots more….always asking questions and trying to do better.

 

It's sometimes hard to know online to know whether you're being serious or just playing.  I'm being serious. If you are, too, and really interested in producing a coherent body of work, the good news based on your past comments is that you're still young.  This thread is hardly the appropriate place or means to provide a meaningful tutorial on using software tools….there are more than enough good resources already….and that wouldn't even be the critical part.

 

But I suspect you're just playing.

 

Jeff

Edited May 5, 2015 by Jeff S

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I think this may be the crux of your problem.

 

Looking at the pictures you have posted they are almost on the verge of an HDR effect, all the tones are harshly separated with no subtle roll-off from one tone to another, and this edge effect (boosting the micro contrast) is what 'High Structure' does in SEP. The 'Soft' version counters this somewhat by adding some 'Soft Contrast' to mellow the effect.

 

To get the depth of tone and a more natural blend from shadow to highlight take what you can learn from the Preset (that some structure can be good) and start from scratch. If it were me I would ignore the Preset and add a small to medium amount of mid-tone structure, and a tiny bit of shadow structure, and generally I leave the highlight structure at zero. Many images can then benefit from a bit of 'Soft Contrast' that darkens the mid tones from the centre down to the shadows, and lightens the mid tones from the centre up to the highlights, if you see what I mean. It applies and 'S' curve to the image if looking at a 'Curves' graph.

 

But as things are your images are trying to give equal prominence to all the tones in the image, and this would be characterised by a straight line in a Curves graph, hence the lack of natural depth. Natural depth of course is what the eye see's, not what the camera see's, and squinting is a good technique to identify where the important detail and tones are placed. And it isn't just a Monochrom thing, many photographers shoot and print what the camera see's, not what they see. So essentially whichever way you do it, SEP or Photoshop, you need some asymmetry between the tones, an 'S' curve, not a straight line.  

 

Steve

Thanks a lot Steve...............So basically instead of using a preset i.e. Structure harsh just open SEP and from the natural panel and tweek it there but in small bits....yep?

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[Geoffrey James]

I never use auto exposure of any kind.  Before shooting, I do a test shot to establish the light levels, and see what is happening in the histogram,  The LED in the view finder will tell you what to do,  although it is rare that  i follow its advice.   In heavily shaded areas,  I will underexpose, the opposite in very bright light.  This is rather obvious stuff if you have exposed film or have the first clue about about what a light meter does. Hardly ever user base ISO.  640 is standard in bright light, 1250 for much else.   I do as little PP as possible -- no presets that mimic film.  My own sense is that much b/w looks over=processed and over-dramatized.  This from last week. ISO 640, 1/750th at F8.  

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[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Sorry but all this is superficial (maybe intentionally) compared to the important issue of how you 'see' the image (and print) and the decisions/judgments you make along the way.  Reminds me of the old joke about the patient complaining to the surgeon about her prices, with the doc explaining that the 'cut' is easy, but knowing where and when to make the cut is the expensive part.

 

I'm not trying to be coy or snooty, but anyone can learn to use software tools; there are countless books, tutorials and workshops on them all.  Creating a style that appeals to you is the critical part.  I've been involved with photography since the early 1970's and I'm still always learning new tricks and tips on my workflow.  (BTW, by workflow I mean every stage from camera to screen to software editing to print to display….every step is vital for a print that 'sings').  My best learning, though, has come from years of looking at others' work (including paintings)…through collecting books and photos, attending shows and exhibits, some workshops along the way, and lots more….always asking questions and trying to do better.

 

It's sometimes hard to know online to know whether you're being serious or just playing.  I'm being serious. If you are, too, and really interested in producing a coherent body of work, the good news based on your past comments is that you're still young.  This thread is hardly the appropriate place or means to provide a meaningful tutorial on using software tools….there are more than enough good resources already….and that wouldn't even be the critical part.

 

But I suspect you're just playing.

 

Jeff

Cheers Jeff

Yes I like to joke and have some fun, but I also want to get better at my photography skills and more importantly my PP skills. When I was at home last month I joined two workshops on Studio lighting and portraiture and this time home (Friday) I am booked into 2 Photoshop workshops(yes they are more around the portraiture style of photography) but they also will hopefully help me with my overall knowledge of post processing. I am not one to read books, I have probably read 3 books in my 57 years on this planet so reading books isn't my forty, looking through magazines and surfing the net is another thing. While I am on the rig I watch a bunch of YouTube videos about photography related stuff , new equipment, how to do this and that etc etc and will make an concerted effort to look and see if there are any online tuituals on shooting B&W and more so working in SEP or understanding more about tones/highlights........still struggle with them blood highlights and will continue to try and get better.

Thanks again for your input and recognizing that yes I do like to have some fun and a wee bitty of banter.........later

[dj_61]

Sometimes you can't pick and choose the light, whatever you are dealt there is a way to work with it, and making up rules about what is or isn't possible is a sure way to stop thinking creatively. I mean, did Bresson flounce off complaining the shadows weren't right or did he just get on with the job?

 

Steve

True but he never blamed his Leica for anything.

[thighslapper]

Neil ...... there is nothing magic about any of this .....

 

..... I (too) am a complete numpty when it comes to B&W .... but here is my 10 cents worth ....

 

1). You will take just as many crap photos in B&W as Colour ...... don't be deluded into thinking because they are B&W they can be magically processed into something they aren't.....

 

2). I have my MM set on -2/3ev exp compensation to avoid blown highlights ..... shadow recovery is easy .... getting something from highlights isn't

 

3). Avoid Auto exposure adjustment in LR - it always seems to overexpose to my eye ...... tinker with the black and white sliders by all means ......

 

4). Download as many B&W LR presets from the internet as you can find ...... most are free .... some are just a few dollars .... and junk the ones that are rubbish.

 

5). I fire up SEP2 and just pick the one that suits ...... from your choice of 150 + ....... tinker a bit if necessary and save. 

 

Can't see the point of doing all the hard work when someone else has already done it for you........ 

Edited May 5, 2015 by thighslapper

[trastevere]

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I think that in the sunlight in which you are working you do not want the additional contrast that a yellow filter would provide.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Neil ...... there is nothing magic about any of this .....

 

..... I (too) am a complete numpty when it comes to B&W .... but here is my 10 cents worth ....

 

1). You will take just as many crap photos in B&W as Colour ...... don't be deluded into thinking because they are B&W they can be magically processed into something they aren't.....

 

2). I have my MM set on -2/3ev exp compensation to avoid blown highlights ..... shadow recovery is easy .... getting something from highlights isn't

 

3). Avoid Auto exposure adjustment in LR - it always seems to overexpose to my eye ...... tinker with the black and white sliders by all means ......

 

4). Download as many B&W LR presets from the internet as you can find ...... most are free .... some are just a few dollars .... and junk the ones that are rubbish.

 

5). I fire up SEP2 and just pick the one that suits ...... from your choice of 150 + ....... tinker a bit if necessary and save. 

 

Can't see the point of doing all the hard work when someone else has already done it for you........ 

Just noticed the Grumpy old fart at the top of your profile............funny sh!t I love that.

Anyway I get home on Friday so will search and download a bunch more presets when I get home.............thanks for that

I am away to Google some Black and White sh^t  tonight and see if I can get my head wrapped around these bloody tone things :)

You know 95% of the time I jump on a plane and fly somewhere go take a picture, fly home and play with them on my computer, if I get any keepers I normally just post them on Facebook, Forums and if I get something really nice I will put it up on my website.............that's about it.

Every now and then someone will log into my website and buy a picture, but I really don't have anything to do with that as my printer takes care of everything and just sends me an invoice once she has sent to picture out.

I have had some great feedback over the last week with regard to my Monochrome photography and look forward to getting more and hopefully at the end of the day getting ...............more keepers

Grumpy old fart........love that

[Jeff S]

Julieanne Kost's (from Adobe) free LR video tutorials provide a good overview of the basic features and controls…with lots of tips...

 

http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/lightroom-training-videos

 

She has other videos using Photoshop….and how to jump between the two if desired.

 

There are also plenty of videos online using SEP.

 

You might also find a photographer whose b/w work you admire and see if he/she offers a workshop (with good feedback from students as a teacher).   Learning Photoshop skills is good, but as I wrote earlier, none of that matters without an end in mind.  Once you figure that out, you'll be making your own presets….and maybe your own prints….that's why I do this stuff.

 

Jeff

Edited May 5, 2015 by Jeff S

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Julieanne Kost's (from Adobe) free LR video tutorials provide a good overview of the basic features and controls…with lots of tips...

 

http://blogs.adobe.com/jkost/lightroom-training-videos

 

She has other videos using Photoshop….and how to jump between the two if desired.

 

There are also plenty of videos online using SEP.

 

You might also find a photographer whose b/w work you admire and see if he/she offers a workshop (with good feedback from students as a teacher).   Learning Photoshop skills is good, but as I wrote earlier, none of that matters without an end in mind.  Once you figure that out, you'll be making your own presets….and maybe your own prints….that's why I do this stuff.

 

Jeff

Cheers mate

[dant]

The bottom line with the MM is this. If you don't want to do extensive PP, just shoot JPEG with a cheapo cam and you will do better than the muddled up RAW the MM produces.

 

If you want to take some time with PP the MM produces very nice files that rival film. The MM has a nice natural looking grain structure as well. I don't like the higher ISO's with the MM. Maybe up to 2500 or so for me.

 

Here is a sample of what the natural grain of the MM looks like.

 

https://danielteolijr.files.wordpress.com/2015/03/irish-bagpiper-copyright-2014-daniel-d-teoli-jr-mr.jpg

Edited May 5, 2015 by dant

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

This is one of the classes that I will go to when I get home; https://www.facebook.com/delortega1

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

I just watched this video, and pretty much followed it step by step on this picture........even using the same film preset in SEP. Do I like it........not sure but what I do like is that I have learnt some more ways of using lightroom and SEP

At the end of the day like quite a few of you have said, there is no right or wrong way to take or PP your pictures, but better to develop a style that I like and stick with it.

I am going to Japan next week and plan to hopefully take enough B&W pictures with my MM and Yellow/Orange filters and if I do get enough keepers then I will publish a second book on Japan .............but this time only in Black and White.

 

 

 

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[pico]

It would be wonderful if you could post the original DNG files.

Thank you,

P

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

It would be wonderful if you could post the original DNG files.

Thank you,

P

Pico I would love to but I don't know how to do that, the forum only allows for small jpg's

[Printmaker]

Pico I would love to but I don't know how to do that, the forum only allows for small jpg's

Why don't you just post the file as large as possible and let us have a go. Or post a link to the DNG file... or offer to email the DNG to see what magic others can manage.

[Guest NEIL-D-WILLIAMS]

Why don't you just post the file as large as possible and let us have a go. Or post a link to the DNG file... or offer to email the DNG to see what magic others can manage.

its in my drop box...............send me an message with your email and I will share it with you?

[Printmaker]

Here you go. 30 seconds in camera raw.

 

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[Printmaker]

This was pulled from your posted JPEG.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Printmaker]

Okay, the link was to a small JPEG but it still works.

 

I lowered your exposure to - 1.90, increased contrast to 25, opened shadows to 90, then added 30 to black and then did the same to the white. Again it took less than a minute. All done to taste. 

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