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M-A viewfinder and the M2 & M3


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I bought a new M6TTL fifteen years ago and all was good.  But as my eyes have aged I started having trouble focusing as accurately as I wanted.  About five years ago I picked up an M2 and noticed I could focus that better than my M6TTL, the viewfinder seemed snappier (higher contrast maybe) and the image popped into focus.  And then three years ago I picked up an M3, and found I could focus that even better as the image in the viewfinder was bigger, brighter, and maybe a bit snappier.  I had other issues with both the M2 and M3 so both ended up getting sold.  But before I sold the M3, I did the "MP conversion" to my M6TTL in hopes the I could have an M2-M3 viewfinder.  But the M6TTL, though better than it was, still doesn't give me the confidence when focusing as I got with the M2 and M3.

 
So my question is, for those who have an M-A and an M2 or M3, how does the viewfinder of the M-A compare to the M2 and/or M3 viewfinder?  Is it as clear, bright and snappy as the older viewfinders?
 
I love the idea of having a new Leica camera, one that would not have the issues that can crop up with used M2 & M3 cameras because of their previous lives and owners.  But I need to have a viewfinder that I can feel confident with, and the M6 just really isn't there.
 
Thanks for any and all input.
 
Best,
-Tim
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... how does the viewfinder of the M-A compare to the M2 or M3 viewfinder?  Is it as clear, bright and snappy as the older viewfinders?

I have an M-A, and I feel the viewfinder's focusing patch definitely is clearer, brighter, and snappier than those of the 50-year-old M2 and M3 cameras.

 

Being slightly far-sighted, I am using a +1.0 dpt correction lens on the M's eye-piece.

Edited by 01af
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Hi Tim - it is a night and day difference.  I have compared the M-A side by side with the M3, M4 and M7, and the M-A is much brighter and the focusing patch is much much more contrasty than the M3 and M4, and meaningfully more so (although less) than with the M7 with the non-upgraded VF. 

 

the brightness and contrastiness comes in handy in low light situations. 

 

my experience is that the VF in the older cameras still work fine although they lose some of their brightness and contrastiness, and there aint a whole lot one can do about it....

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Thank you both for the replies.  I'm a bit confused.  In my experience, which is limited to the one M6TTL I own, and the one M2 and M3 I used to own, is that the M2 and M3 that I had both had snappier, higher contrast and brighter viewfinders than my M6TTL, even after I had the "MP upgrade" done to my M6TTL.  Maybe the viewfinders of my M2 and M3 were just in great condition compared to most of the used models out there.

 

I would consider the purchase of an M-A if the viewfinder was brighter/contrastier than my "MP upgraded" M6TTL.  Do you two think that would be the case?

 

Best,

-Tim

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I would consider the purchase of an M-A if the viewfinder was brighter/contrastier than my "MP upgraded" M6TTL.  Do you two think that would be the case?

 

Best,

-Tim

 

The M-A uses the same viewfinder components as the MP. The only difference is that some of the framelines are more complete, since there is no cut-out for the information from the meter.

Edited by indergaard
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IF your M6 has an MP VF, I would venture to say that the M-A may indeed be clearer and more contrasty, but I doubt it would be by a large enough margin to justify the incremental cost.  If a better VF is all you are after, you could probably get a used ex/mint- condition MP for half the price.

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Tim,

As I have writen in the other site, after having MP .85 (sold years ago), I used MP .72 (sold also) and now M-A.

The nice viewfinder of MP and M-A may make difference with your M6 TTL's experiences.

 

As said above, the MP price (2d hand) is far more cheaper than new M-A.

If you are not happy with MP (if you buy it) you could sell it with little less money.

If you choose M-A route, that could be far more "money/loose"(if you're not happy with it, of course).

 

Arnaud

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Thanks everyone.

 

I wouldn't be buying an MP with .72 viewfinder, as it would be probably the same thing I have with my M6TTL with the "MP Upgrade".  I was interested in the "a la carte" MP's with the .85 finder, but most of the folks I've talked to who have them say even with the larger magnification finder, the viewfinder is not as easy to focus as the M3.

 

So I was hoping maybe Leica did something "magical" with the new M-A so that the viewfinder gave the same focusing experience I had with my M2 and maybe something closer to the M3.  Doesn't seem like that is the case.

 

In retrospect, one of the reasons the M2 I used to own might have been easier for me to focus than my M6TTL (even though they are both .72 viewfinders), is that the M2 doesn't have the lighted LED's in the viewfinder, so maybe it appears "bigger and brighter" when focusing.

Edited by Timmyjoe
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  • 2 weeks later...

The M3 has a fabulous viewfinder, I agree.  Mine is de laminating slightly, but still very nice. I think it is easier to focus because it is optimised for 50mm.

 

The M-A is definitely better than the M3, primarily because I use more than 50mm. It's certainly better than the MP I had - as suggested elsewhere, this is probably because it doesn't have the digital readout at the bottom, giving more real estate, or perhaps just less distraction.

 

The proof of the pudding is that the viewfinder is bright, clear and easy to focus. The best test is to try it. 

Edited by IkarusJohn
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I wouldn't be buying an MP with .72 viewfinder, as it would be probably the same thing I have with my M6TTL with the "MP Upgrade". I was interested in the "a la carte" MP's with the .85 finder, but most of the folks I've talked to who have them say even with the larger magnification finder, the viewfinder is not as easy to focus as the M3.

Depends on what you want to achieve. A 0.72 finder with 1.25x magnifier gets you into M3 territory with regards to vf magnification. Then I supposed depending on camera samples it'll be brighter/dimmer/equal in terms of contrast. Suppose compared to "like new M3 finder" you'll lose a tad on contrast. But most M3's aren't like that, so betting equal is probably about right.

 

If you go for .85 finder, then with the magnifier you'll have even more magnification than M3. Should still be ok'ish for 50mm, depending on how much you want to see outside framelines.

 

And you can also get M6 and M7 with .85 finder.

 

//Juha

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I have a new a la carte MP with the .85 viewfinder. I chose the simplified 35, 50, 90 frame lines.

 

The 35mm frame lines fill the viewfinder, the 50 mm and 90mm frame lines are clear and distinct. The focusing window is better than my M7.

The metering red dot and arrows are VERY bright, and that's OK if you're shooting outdoors. For indoor and low light, I just remove the battery and use a Sekonic 308S to get the exposure.  The a la carte MP comes with a battery cover that has an indent so you can use a coin to remove it. The battery is held onto the battery cover by a spring. Nice. 

For a 50 and a 90, the MP is excellent. For the 35, I really have to move my eye around to compose. It's doable, but it takes a while to get used to it. 

 

FWIW, George

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  • 3 weeks later...
  • 1 year later...

I've been using digital Ms since the M8.  I've now switched back to the M3 for a bit which I shot in the pre-digital era.

The M3's finder is materially better than the M8, M9 and M240 (stolen!) that I had.  This is what I imagine a top of the line optical finder should look like.  The contrast is strong and it snaps.  It's just more 'optical'.  Yes, it's slightly dimmer.  I understand this is due to the blue tint in the non-patch portion of the rangefinder.  This adds the contrast against the gold patch.  Yes a modern Leica rangefinder is brighter, but I'm not sure that alone makes it superior.  Also the patch is larger on the M3 presumably as a result of the 0.91x.

Having said that the modern brightness helps in lower light so it's a bit of a toss up.  In broad daylight the M3 smokes 'em.

 

 

 

 

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I have M 2,3,4,5,6 and 9. Although I've used the M6 since new in 1985, the RF flare finally got to me, and I had it upgraded with both the "flare fix" and also to the multicoated windows from the MP, even though DAG told me he didn't think the multicoated was worth it. I think it is now the best VF of the bunch.

I bought my new M4 in 1968 over a new M3, and still don't care for the M3 finder.

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I'm not sure if it's any help, but I have an M2 and an M Monochrom mk1. In comparison, the viewfinder of the M2 is brighter, snappier, and more accurate than the M Monochrom, and is a delight to use, in all conditions. I find it a little surprising that a modern M should have a more inferior rangefinder than a 50-year-old M. 

 

I can't speak for the M-A however, I've never even seen one of those.

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No problem with the 28mm Elmarit ASPH on the M-A - no different from any other x0.72 M ; I've been using the pre-2016 version.

If I carry M6 and M-A together , it is obvious that multi-coated M-A finder is a little bit brighter and more contrasty.

 

I used a Panasonic gx85 micro43 camera with EVF almost exclusively last month on holiday : when I picked up the M-A again I exclaimed Holy *! - the M-A viewfinder is simply amazing.

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No problem with the 28mm Elmarit ASPH on the M-A - no different from any other x0.72 M ; I've been using the pre-2016 version.

If I carry M6 and M-A together , it is obvious that multi-coated M-A finder is a little bit brighter and more contrasty.

 

I used a Panasonic gx85 micro43 camera with EVF almost exclusively last month on holiday : when I picked up the M-A again I exclaimed Holy *! - the M-A viewfinder is simply amazing.

 

at the time I bought my M-A I had my M6 and M4 to trade in against it. The M6 I never liked because it was always flaring. When I looked through the M4 vs M-A the difference was amazing. I have since replaced the M4, I love it! I think having the cataracts removed has something to do with it. In sum, the M-A is bright, clear, sharp focus, etc.....new is new ...

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  • 2 weeks later...

if you like the viewfinder of an M2 and are willing to invest upt to the price of an M-A, there should be a solution for you:

 

get an M2 with sufficient rangefinder and have it turned in to wetzlar for a complete service. that still should be cheaper than an M-A and gets you to an M2 without any of the problems an old camera has gotten from its previous owners.

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