Monochrom M246 Reviews

[BerndReini]

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I really feel that the three reviews we are talking about are very informed and realistic. They show the advantages over the previous version without exaggeration. As a matter of fact, for me personally the advantages are small enough that I just pulled the trigger on the last version MM. I really don't know what you expect the beta-testers to write. Sean in particular provides side by side samples of different cameras. How can you find fault with that. I was super-happy to have this information in the day of the release, while there is availability of the old MM. It really helped me make a more informed decision on whether to wait or not.

[jonoslack]

I did read it. 

 

Post #113 on this thread pretty much nails it though in what I would rather see in actual reviews. 5K in a few weeks is still a preview in my experience. 20-50K over 6 months and a few burly assignments would be taken much more seriously by me personally. 

 

Not to slam the previewers like Jono or the career reviewer / tester like Reid but.....

 

RAX?

Gibson?

DAH?

You didn't really read it - it was over 5 MONTHS - I had the first camera at Christmas time - and the second camera sometime in March - you can slam me if you like, but don't slam me for something which didn't happen

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[Lenshacker]

 

I really feel that the three reviews we are talking about are very informed and realistic. They show the advantages over the previous version without exaggeration. As a matter of fact, for me personally the advantages are small enough that I just pulled the trigger on the last version MM. I really don't know what you expect the beta-testers to write. Sean in particular provides side by side samples of different cameras. How can you find fault with that. I was super-happy to have this information in the day of the release, while there is availability of the old MM. It really helped me make a more informed decision on whether to wait or not.

 

 

 

Be sure to have a deep yellow and orange filter on the ready!

 

And Congratulations. The M Monochrom has one of most uniform and low-noise sensors ever offered in a camera.

Edited May 1, 2015 by Lenshacker

[jonoslack]

Does anyone have some uncompressed DNG files for the M246 available for download?

 

Jono- you site still has the DNG files for the original M Monochrom being available. Any chance you could put some of the new ones up at Dropbox?

HI There - I'll see what I can do - it may be a possibility

[jonoslack]

Can someone state definitely whether or not the M246 has gone back to using 12-bits per sample pixels? The M Monochrom, M8, M9, M240 all use 14-bits per sample pixels. The Kodak DCS760m of 2001 used 12-bit samples. The 34.5MByte uncompressed DNG files used by the M246 seems to indicate 12-bit data. 

Yes it has - definitely - I understand it was to do with performance issues, and as are all these decisions it was a compromise. unfortunate? perhaps, but I don't think it shows in the images

[jonoslack]

That is not my point and you know that. My point is that these day of product announcement previews seem a lot more like well orchestrated press releases rather than an actual, pound it into the corners, tires squeeling in an actual race, checkered flag in sight review. 

 

To make the whole "Gear Review Hero" ethos even more comical is just how many "My M246 review" posts that will follow in some 3-9 months time.....hundreds...it's verging on *fully* retarded!

 

Logging off to celebrate my wife's birthday, feel free to do what you do best and that is take me to task.

First of all, Happy Birthday to your wife!

Sean Reid and Gregory Simpson have shown some fairly careful and detailed comparisons - David Farkas has taken some nice shots and also done a fine review - we all know his job. . . I haven't shown detailed comparisons (although I've done them).

 

My job really isn't to talk to the world - my job is to test the cameras and report back to Leica, I like to write a short piece because it concentrates my mind, forces me to properly analyse the images . . . . and people seem to like the write ups. Leica had not read my piece before it was posted, and they gave me no instructions as to what they'd like. 

 

Detailed comparisons aren't the same as taking the camera out on jobs for 6 months and taking 60k photos . . . .but which pro is going to do that when they can't use the images until the camera is released? 

 

Whatever - I'm certainly not trying to defend myself, just pointing out that:

 

1. I've had the camera since Christmas (with a small break for a turnaround) - the 5,000 images relates to the second camera - the first one was probably more than that (hard to tell)

2. My job is testing cameras and giving feedback to Leica - not writing previews/reviews

3. I try and make my articles entertaining and informative rather than detailed and exhaustive. (I'm not arrogant enough to think that anyone should buy a camera on my sayso).

 

I think that in the 4 writeups there has been some variety, some detail, some entertainment and even some nice photos - nothing to be too miserable about. 

[bocaburger]

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They show the advantages over the previous version without exaggeration. As a matter of fact, for me personally the advantages are small enough that I just pulled the trigger on the last version MM.

The MM suffers from sensor issues that Leica have not resolved and which bode for the possiblity of recurring trips to Solms for months on end, and there is fair probability at some point sooner than later replacement sensors will stop being manufactured.  Leica has not inflated the price of the M246.  So it would seem to me the M246 would need to test out as having worse IQ in some way(s) than the MM in order to persuade someone to buy the latter in preference to the former.  But YMMV as they say.

[Lenshacker]

Yes it has - definitely - I understand it was to do with performance issues, and as are all these decisions it was a compromise. unfortunate? perhaps, but I don't think it shows in the images

I understand the performance issues, We built an Infrared digital imager with 12-bits per pixel in 1981. By 1985 we had moved to 15-bit pixels. That was hard 30 years ago. Where does the time go. 

[Jon Warwick]

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/leica-m-monochrom--typ-246--review-27418

 

I just had a play with the images that they took around Leica Mayfair from this ephotozine link.

 

These Type M246 images, to me, feel much more "M240" (which I own) than they do M9 Monochrom (which I've tried extensively .... around Leica Mayfair, in fact).  

 

That is a good thing in my view -- the files  from the Type 246 seem -- from my very casual view -- to have better dynamic range (more natural highlight shoulder?), and enlarge magnificently well compared to the M9 Monochrom.

 

Why do I say this?  Well, similar to the M240, the M246 files seem to me to contain MORE detail than their respective predecessors -- and yet also seem to enlarge in a more SMOOTH fashion at very large sizes.  

 

All of this seems to point to a great combination of factors, in my view.  

 

Maybe the M246 files achieve (compared to any digital images I've seen previously) a closer look to the drum-scanned medium-format B&W films that I adore, perhaps?  I think so, and as a huge film fan, I don't say that lightly.  

 

It's not just the resolution of the M246 (perhaps close -- if not higher now -- than drum-scanned 6x7 Acros / Delta?), but moreover it's the rich tonality that i perceive off the M246 files ...... I see the subtlest nuances of grey transitioning across the image, and hence depth of shape, when I look at these new files.  Very smooth and natural - rather like larger sized film?  And also a natural / organic look (with far fewer computerised artefacts compared to a Bayer filtered camera - albeit that was one of the benefits of the previous MM) ....

Edited May 1, 2015 by Jon Warwick

[gpwhite]

Jono, I liked your review of the M246 very much. I read it immediately after Sean's very technical comparison, the latter showing that there is a clear difference in the M246 files as they come out of the camera vs. MM. Sean hit the nail on the head for me when he wrote something to the effect of which body you prefer is like choosing which B+W film emulsion you prefer.

 

Your images showed me two things that Sean's did not. First, you brought forth very rich depth and artistry...  much like the best, exotically nuanced espresso. Flat? Hmmm... well it is web browser, right? Your shots really show the power of the Monochrom files well beyond sharpy pixels. Second, it seems unfair that you have that 28 SX, enjoying it all this time, and we are just waiting and waiting  . I only saw 28 SX @ f/8 posted... please put up some work wide open so we can wonder off into that "flat" OOF with the M246 rendering 

 

Thanks so much. You tolerate the gas inherent in on-line forum quetsching very nobly indeed.

[jaapv]

That is not my point and you know that. My point is that these day of product announcement previews seem a lot more like well orchestrated press releases rather than an actual, pound it into the corners, tires squeeling in an actual race, checkered flag in sight review. 

 

To make the whole "Gear Review Hero" ethos even more comical is just how many "My M246 review" posts that will follow in some 3-9 months time.....hundreds...it's verging on *fully* retarded!

 

Logging off to celebrate my wife's birthday, feel free to do what you do best and that is take me to task.

I'm not taking you to task, but I do feel that you launched an unjustified attack against two of Leica's most serious reviewers and testers who had the camera in their hands for months, and that you totally ignored Jono's full disclosure in the first paragraph of his review.

[jaapv]

 (I'm not arrogant enough to think that anyone should buy a camera on my sayso).

 

 

Well, I did -twice- and couldn't be more happy

[BerndReini]

The MM suffers from sensor issues that Leica have not resolved and which bode for the possiblity of recurring trips to Solms for months on end, and there is fair probability at some point sooner than later replacement sensors will stop being manufactured.  Leica has not inflated the price of the M246.  So it would seem to me the M246 would need to test out as having worse IQ in some way(s) than the MM in order to persuade someone to buy the latter in preference to the former.  But YMMV as they say.

I bought a silver QM2 Monochrom for $4,650. That's a significant price difference to the new Monochrom. I also shoot with an M9 and didn't upgrade to the M240, so I have a lot of batteries and an Arte Di Mano case. The interchangeability is convenient and adds up to another couple of hundred dollars if not a thousand. I also own and shoot with a film MP and an M7. Leica said they stand behind their product as far as the sensor corrosion is concerned and I have enough back up bodies to not have to worry about any Repair turnaround. The way I look at it is that I would pretty much have to sell my MP, and it would not even make up for the difference in price to the new Monochrom. I also considered that a lot of users may upgrade and sell their used MMs, but at the price I paid for this MM, I would rather have it new. Aside from this it is silver, which I think is beautiful. And yes, I own plenty of color filters from my film cameras. I have shot a lot with my friends MM, so I know what to expect. I'm definitely excited about the purchase. It's been a long time coming.

[stevesurf]

I really feel that the three reviews we are talking about are very informed and realistic. They show the advantages over the previous version without exaggeration. As a matter of fact, for me personally the advantages are small enough that I just pulled the trigger on the last version MM. I really don't know what you expect the beta-testers to write. Sean in particular provides side by side samples of different cameras. How can you find fault with that. I was super-happy to have this information in the day of the release, while there is availability of the old MM. It really helped me make a more informed decision on whether to wait or not.

 

I fully agree; the reviews were very informative and showed significant improvement. For me It's ironic as I was fortunate to just get a MM QM2 as well; I knew well about the next version but felt the current imager's great dynamic range yield very editable DNG files.

 

What is also interesting is that I am now rediscovering different black and white filters other than the usual yellow I've got now; no doubt the upcoming filter releases may be interesting.

[IkarusJohn]

First of all, Happy Birthday to your wife!

Sean Reid and Gregory Simpson have shown some fairly careful and detailed comparisons - David Farkas has taken some nice shots and also done a fine review - we all know his job. . . I haven't shown detailed comparisons (although I've done them).

 

My job really isn't to talk to the world - my job is to test the cameras and report back to Leica, I like to write a short piece because it concentrates my mind, forces me to properly analyse the images . . . . and people seem to like the write ups. Leica had not read my piece before it was posted, and they gave me no instructions as to what they'd like. 

 

Detailed comparisons aren't the same as taking the camera out on jobs for 6 months and taking 60k photos . . . .but which pro is going to do that when they can't use the images until the camera is released? 

 

Whatever - I'm certainly not trying to defend myself, just pointing out that:

 

1. I've had the camera since Christmas (with a small break for a turnaround) - the 5,000 images relates to the second camera - the first one was probably more than that (hard to tell)

2. My job is testing cameras and giving feedback to Leica - not writing previews/reviews

3. I try and make my articles entertaining and informative rather than detailed and exhaustive. (I'm not arrogant enough to think that anyone should buy a camera on my sayso).

 

I think that in the 4 writeups there has been some variety, some detail, some entertainment and even some nice photos - nothing to be too miserable about. 

 

I wouldn't take to much notice of KM-25. He's an argument looking for an issue. 

 

I would like like to say, though, that I had no intention of buying the original Monochrom. I thought it was a very dumb, very pretentious idea. Then I read through Jono's review and thought - this is interesting. I played with the DNG files he generously made available. I borrowed a Monochrom from the Leica importer and was completely sold. 

 

Now, think about that - Jono took the time to write and share his thoughts, I tried the camera and liked it. I bought the camera - Leica is happy, I'm very happy and Jono's review was largely to blame. 

 

Meanwhile, KM-25 is cynical and (apparently) unhappy that reviews have come out before 50,000 - 60,0000 frames have been shot by a professional, independent reviewer (okay, I know that wasn't him). Excellent. I'm sure I he's happy too, regardless of the facts.

 

cheers

John

Edited May 2, 2015 by IkarusJohn

[pklein]

I am grateful to Jono, David and Sean for sharing their observations. Most people who are into Leicas know what their biases are. And as long as those biases are disclosed, what they write is useful.  There is no need to play combative Watergate journalist with people who are doing their best to share what they've found so far. 

 

--Peter

[BerndReini]

I think it is time to give KM-25 a pass. I feel that his original post was a little inconsiderate and he painted himself into a corner, and felt like he needed to go on the defensive. We all get caught on the wrong foot sometimes and post something we shouldn't have. It happens. There are definitely those reviews that are meaningless, but in this case the reviewers were well chosen. KM-25 got chastised enough. Let's all forget about it.

[jaapv]

I think it is time to give KM-25 a pass. I feel that his original post was a little inconsiderate and he painted himself into a corner, and felt like he needed to go on the defensive. We all get caught on the wrong foot sometimes and post something we shouldn't have. It happens. There are definitely those reviews that are meaningless, but in this case the reviewers were well chosen. KM-25 got chastised enough. Let's all forget about it.

Fully agree.

[dkCambridgeshire]

Given that the M246 has a CMOS sensor why are we discussing it in the M9 sub forum? 

 

Surely all M246 posts should be in the M240 sub forum? 

 

When the M246 is in the stores are we going to continue discussing it here? 

 

Bit of a mix-up and illogical that it stays here.

 

Jono Slack started his post in the M240 sub forum. 

 

dunk

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[Jeff S]

Seems that either the M240 sub-forum should include the MM246 in the heading, or there should be a separate sub-forum for Monochrom cameras.  Pros and cons...

 

Jeff