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DMJ

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With live view / EVF on the M240 (& almost certainly future camera's) I wonder if Leica will introduce true zoom lenses as in the R range?  I would love to be able to buy/use an 80-200 f4 M lens; yes the R version exists but it would be great to have a mix of primes & zooms specifically for the M mount.  If you are listening Leica then I for one would buy them to augment my primes.

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You would have to use the EVF and manually stop down the aperture for M-Mount.

 

Just buy an adapter and use the many excellent zooms that other manufacturers spent their money producing. 

 

I rarely use zooms, the Micro-Nikkor-Zoom 70~180 being an exception.

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The technology is there today for very high performance zooms. Canon at the moment is the master of zooms and is out performing the entire industry with their 24-70mm II and 70-200mm IS II, these lenses reach a level of performance often exceeding the companies own primes. 

You can see just how fantastic the 70-200mm IS II is with this sample on the 50 Megapixel 5Ds. Zoom into 100% and take a look at the level of detail!   http://canon-premium.webcdn.stream.ne.jp/www09/canon-premium/eosd/samples/eos5ds/downloads/01.jpg

 

However, the problem is the engineering challenge of aberration correction over multiple focal lengths. Canon will do it with a large number of elements which makes for very big designs, 23 elements in the case of the 70-200 II IS! The cost of less precision. Leica would take an approach of exotic glass and precision ASPH elements, which means a very big price tag for performance to match primes. Zooms also don't work well with the Rangefinder. Leica could however come out with a new version of the Tri-Elmar 28-35-50mm.

Edited by Mornnb
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The 80-200 R + Novoflex adapter is part of my standard lens kit. :) :) Highly recommended.

New production in M-mount? Pipe-dream....

 

Jaap,

 

after looking for a while I've just bought and waiting delivery of a 2002 production 4.0/80-200 Vario-Elmar-R

Also already have the 28-90 and the x2 APO-Adapter.  

 

I took your advice about the increased versatility of this lens over the 180 APO-Telyt-R.

I was looking at a 2.8/180 APO-Telyt-R but couldn't justify the price for a less-used range of focal lengths.

 

Regards,

Mark

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I seem to recall reading somewhere that the WATE (but not MATE) is mechanically a true zoom...is that right?    The only zoom I have that has a real aperture ring, and which I've used on the M240 is the 70-210/4 R lens.  I had one back when I was using R's and got the 80-200/4 figuring it was scads better, but didn't find it significantly so.  Plus it was a lot heavier, and slower in handheld operation due to being a 2-touch.  So when the M240 came along and I found a 70-210 for under $300 I snapped it up.  Liked it so much I picked up a mint one for $400 to have as a backup, as I doubt these lenses would be economical to repair even if parts might still be available.  The biggest issue I have with it and any long, heavy lens on the M240 is I'm somewhat spoiled by IS having used Canon for so long.  Second issue is the long blackout using LV, which to me negates one of the primary advantages of the camera. 

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Another problem is that most zooms are not parfocal, which means the focusing distance changes when zooming.

Not a problem for AF cameras, but on an M camera this would rule out RF focusing and still be quite awkward with an EVF.

 

When I need a zoom, I bring my Canon.

Edited by CheshireCat
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I never noticed any focus shift when zooming on both the 80-200and 105-280. In fact, if you like, both can be focused at maximum focal length for precision and zoomed out. 

Anyhow, the normal workflow with a zoom lens is to fine-focus after framing. When I need zoom lens, I bring my Leica lenses... ;)

 

I found  a difference between the older Minolta R zooms and the newest R zooms, as does Erwin Puts, but even the older designs are quite good - and light!

 

Update:

 

I just tested both the 80-200 and 105-280 and I found no focus shift when zooming.

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I found  a difference between the older Minolta R zooms and the newest R zooms, as does Erwin Puts, but even the older designs are quite good - and light!

 

The last (70-210/f4 code # 11246) was quite a leap beyond the first two.  Truly a remarkable achievement in 1984 when almost no zooms were anywhere near the quality of primes.  I also found a difference between it and the 80-200/4, and Puts' description seems accurate...and if you look at the MTF's the differences are there, but slight.  Puts also mentions a 1% less distortion and about a half stop less vignetting with the newer lens, but both are quite low so it doesn't translate to much in shooting.  Back 15 years ago there was much less of a percentage price differential, so had it not been for the difference in weight and 1-touch vs 2-touch I would no doubt have kept the newer lens.  Given the prices today, the 70-210 is quite a bargain. 

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My reasoning for a zoom is that the rangefinder is ideal for 28-75mm focal lengths but becomes more awkward below & above this range.  Yes there are markings for 90mm & 135mm but the framing lines get smaller & smaller & (my) RF success drops.  I don't want to take my Nikon along just for distance work but would love just to have a M mount (not adapted R) 80-200ish lens in my bag.  At <28mm I already either guess framing or use LV/EVF.

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With live view / EVF on the M240 (& almost certainly future camera's) I wonder if Leica will introduce true zoom lenses as in the R range?  I would love to be able to buy/use an 80-200 f4 M lens; yes the R version exists but it would be great to have a mix of primes & zooms specifically for the M mount.  If you are listening Leica then I for one would buy them to augment my primes.

 

I would be quite easy to add electrical contacts to the M mount to allow direct AF zoom lens use or via an adapter ........ and if the existing Leica T zooms are anything to go by .... which are really very good quality optics .... then this would be extra flexibility with no real downsides for existing hardened RF users. Any AF menu options could be hidden and just pop up when a suitable lens is attached.

 

If Leica follows the usual route of pinching things from the S range then I suspect they will use the much better Maestro 2 processor .... which already gives fast AF for the S lenses on a change to a CMOS processor .....

 

Not a difficult option to implement ....... no real downsides  ...... Leica would be daft not to be working on it ...... and I suspect a range of AF lenses are in pre-production in Japan as we speak ......  :p

Edited by thighslapper
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Most zooms hold focus, but if you focus on the short end and zoom in- you lose DOF. Learned that almost 45 years ago with Super-8 movie camera, always focus at the long end of the focal length and zoom back.

 

Actually, most modern photo (as opposed to cine) zooms are not parfocal:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/04/first-look-zeiss-cz-2-70-200mm-t2-9

 

I can't tell about old zooms, but the term "parfocal", like "APO", is not strictly defined. Hence, on low-resolution media a zoom may be acceptably parfocal, but far from it on a 24+ MP camera.

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Interesting. Can you post sample 1:1 crops at different FL ?

What would those prove? That I can focus a lens? I am happy using them and changing focal length without refocusing and that suffices for me.

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