fussgangerfoto Posted April 18, 2015 Share #1 Posted April 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I picked up a used f/1 Noctilux (E60 w/sliding hood) from the used department of a large dealer. It's in perfect condition, but it back-focuses a bit on both my M240 and Monochrom. I don't have any focus issues with my other lenses (35 & 50 f/2 Summicrons) nor with the 50mm Summilux ASPH that I sold, so I don't think my rangefinders are off. Using the live-view on the M240 with focus peaking, I find that when I focus with the rangefinder patch first (camera on tripod), I need to turn the focus ring about 1 ridge on the ring closer to get the focus peak where I want it. The correction seems to be linear across the distance field (i.e., from 1 m to infinity, just one slight shift inward (one notch on the ring) and it's very sharp in the center). So right now, I've developed a technique that is seeming to work well to get predictable focus: I align the RF patch as normal, and then turn the focus ring in just to the point where the patch first appears misaligned. In the attached photo, the crop on the left shows the RF patch aligned focus on the right edge of the Dewar's label. You can see the wooden box behind it is actually in better focus. The crop on the right shows the results with my manual technique (focus as normal, turn focus closer by just a hair until the RF patch first begins to look unaligned). These were taken on the Monochrom (no focus peaking). I am wondering if its worth sending the lens in for calibration (or just returning it) or, if perhaps all these Nocts are all temperamental, just using it for a while with my manual correction. Thanks for any suggestions. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243817-noctilux-f1-with-back-focus-calibrate-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=2800464'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 18, 2015 Posted April 18, 2015 Hi fussgangerfoto, Take a look here Noctilux f/1 with back-focus - calibrate or not?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Nordvik Posted April 18, 2015 Share #2 Posted April 18, 2015 I could not live with that. Repair or sell/return. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Verrips Posted April 18, 2015 Share #3 Posted April 18, 2015 Just calibrate the lens. You didn't buy that lens for less then perfection. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted April 18, 2015 Share #4 Posted April 18, 2015 Get it fixed. Unless it makes focussing better at higher apertures like 2.8. If it compensates for focus shift at higher apertures, I would consider living with it, but if you have to do this at all apertures to get the sharpest possible image, it would make no sense owning a lens that expensive and not having it work perfectly. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fussgangerfoto Posted April 18, 2015 Author Share #5 Posted April 18, 2015 Thanks, all. Yep, I still see the back focus through f/4, after that the increase DOF masks it. At this point, I'm leaning toward a straight return, but I have 14 days to decide and I can't ship until Monday anyhow, so I plan to try to fall in love with the IQ and rendering, using the LV of the M240 to focus. If it wins me over (moreso than the f/1.4 Summilux), I'll invest in a recalibration. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted April 19, 2015 Share #6 Posted April 19, 2015 Getting it calibrated should cost you no more than $300. I had my 50 lux adjusted for back focus under passport warranty. Leica NJ put a small shim in front of the lens mount and it is perfect now. I'm so happy I got it done. It is important to feel confident about focussing especially when shooting portraits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted April 19, 2015 Share #7 Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) The Noctilux f/1 is a tricky lens. The lens will backfocus by design when stopped down, due to spherical aberration. Note that this lens has no aspherical nor floating elements, and that is part of its very strong character. Backfocus when stopped down is perfectly normal. My lens is spot on at f/1 on my M240. If yours is not, then I suggest you get it calibrated for f/1. You will always see strong backfocus when stopping down. This is by Mandler's design and no one will be able to "fix" the backfocus issue. If you can't stand it, then this lens is not for you. Get a Noctilux 50/0.95 ASPH or a cheaper third-party alternative. Edited April 19, 2015 by CheshireCat 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 19, 2015 Share #8 Posted April 19, 2015 CheshireCat beat me to it - I completely agree. So to some extent one needs to learn the lens' limitations and adjust accordingly, or shoot with an EVF on an M240. That doesn't mean that this particular unit does not need service and optimum calibration. Also remember that at f1.0 it is quite soft with reduced contrast which can be mistaken for missed focus. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
CheshireCat Posted April 19, 2015 Share #9 Posted April 19, 2015 Note that f/1 is quite challenging, and the lens looks soft at f/1 SOOC (straight out of camera). But good copies of this lens are not soft at all, they just need some postprocessing to shine. This is a 100% crop of my copy at f/1 on the M240. Challenging SoCal ultrasunny conditions (the low contrast of this lens really helps). Notice the blue fringing (not purple) due to the special Noctilux glass. Can be corrected with some patience (I don't mind much). Essential actions: Correct WB to get rid of yellowish glass cast. Remove lateral CA. Sharpen just enough to get rid of spherical aberration. I love this lens. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243817-noctilux-f1-with-back-focus-calibrate-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=2800788'>More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 19, 2015 Share #10 Posted April 19, 2015 Note that f/1 is quite challenging, and the lens looks soft at f/1 SOOC (straight out of camera). But good copies of this lens are not soft at all, they just need some postprocessing to shine. The images are softer at f1.0 out of camera but I agree that PP can improve this. There is still a significant increase in contrast stopping down from maximum aperture. This also occurs with many new faster lenses, just quite to this extent. I too think this is a fabulous lens. It's aberrations are exactly what make it so special whether wide open or stopped down at normal apertures. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 19, 2015 Share #11 Posted April 19, 2015 The PP corrections by Cat are impressive, but it only means his lens was correctly focused in the first place. The phenomena you describe are simple backfocus and can be corrected. Be aware, however, that the lens shows focus shift. Personally I would have it spot-on wide open. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fussgangerfoto Posted April 19, 2015 Author Share #12 Posted April 19, 2015 Thanks, all, for your additional comments. To clarify, I purchased this lens solely to shoot at f/1, almost exclusively in B&W. If it were spot on at f/1, I'd be very happy. I understand the focus shift when stopped down, but I have no intention of shooting the lens over f/2. To me, it's not an everyday or walk around lens. It's a special purpose lens and a beast to carry around. I've been checking results with SOOC JPGs, so I will try some post-processing, though the comparison in my original post, clearly shows a back focus issue. It's not that the lens won't produce a satisfying picture (when using the EVF of the M240 or with my manual guestimate). It does just seem to be a question of whether to invest another $300 or so (and however long) to get it calibrated, or just returning it and finding another sample. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243817-noctilux-f1-with-back-focus-calibrate-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=2800898'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 19, 2015 Share #13 Posted April 19, 2015 Another sample may show the same effect, I would have it calibrated to 1.0 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
BerndReini Posted April 19, 2015 Share #14 Posted April 19, 2015 (edited) Don't underestimate the beauty this Mandler gem can create stopped down. This was taken around 4-5.6 with the Monochrom. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 19, 2015 by BerndReini 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/243817-noctilux-f1-with-back-focus-calibrate-or-not/?do=findComment&comment=2801055'>More sharing options...
fussgangerfoto Posted April 20, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted April 20, 2015 I'm sure everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting for me to decide what to do ... I thought I'd try using the lens for a couple of days on the M240, which has the benefit of LV, the EVF and focus peaking. Interestingly enough, at f/1, the lens is not that contrasty, so the EVF/focus peaking has quite a bit of play. With the RF patch aligned, for example, the focus peaking indicates my Scotch bottle label is in focus and continues to do so as I rotate the focus ring inward. (Though, in fairness, I can see -- peaking aside -- the image is sharper or not). I reached out to DAG, Sherry K and Leica US. Don got back to me right away and offered to calibrate the lens, but he's backlogged. Sherry said I should send both the camera body I want to work with this lens, and the lens, to Leica as it's a digital problem and the body and lens need to be married. I side with Jaapv on this - that each is set to a standard otherwise, mating cameras and lenses in some sort of photography monogamy would reek havoc on future pairings. No response from Leica US other than an email acknowledgement. I am liking the lens more and more as I shoot with it. I would hate to have to part with it for 3 or 4 months though. I'm old and that period of time could represent a significant portion of my remaining days Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
menos I M6 Posted April 21, 2015 Share #16 Posted April 21, 2015 Definitely get the lens calibrated spot on @ f1 ! I use a few very fast lenses even more critical than the Noctilux f1 and the one most important thing with all of these is that you can absolutely rely on the lens reliably focussing with the RF. With my Noctilux f1 v4 I would not settle for anything less than perfect calibration. Leica, Don Goldberg and Sherry Krauter can all do this job for sure and I would pick the one service you feel best about. Don't settle for a half good lens for that kind of money. After the newness is worn off, it is easily left home because then annoyance over one of the other missed shot due to rangefinder calibration issues with take over. A Noctilux f1 should focus SPOT ON wide open at any distance from 1m to infinity. This is, how they are normally calibrated (within tolerances). Once you stop the lens down, focus shift will be visible, but this is a lens characteristic you will learn to accommodate. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted April 21, 2015 Share #17 Posted April 21, 2015 I'm sure everyone is on the edge of their seats waiting for me to decide what to do ... I thought I'd try using the lens for a couple of days on the M240, which has the benefit of LV, the EVF and focus peaking. Interestingly enough, at f/1, the lens is not that contrasty, so the EVF/focus peaking has quite a bit of play. With the RF patch aligned, for example, the focus peaking indicates my Scotch bottle label is in focus and continues to do so as I rotate the focus ring inward. (Though, in fairness, I can see -- peaking aside -- the image is sharper or not). I reached out to DAG, Sherry K and Leica US. Don got back to me right away and offered to calibrate the lens, but he's backlogged. Sherry said I should send both the camera body I want to work with this lens, and the lens, to Leica as it's a digital problem and the body and lens need to be married. I side with Jaapv on this - that each is set to a standard otherwise, mating cameras and lenses in some sort of photography monogamy would reek havoc on future pairings. No response from Leica US other than an email acknowledgement. I am liking the lens more and more as I shoot with it. I would hate to have to part with it for 3 or 4 months though. I’m old and that period of time could represent a significant portion of my remaining days :(Yes, but with highly critical lenses like the Noctilux or Summilux75 it is possible to do tolerance matching between body and lens. Yes, but with highly critical lenses like the Noctilux or Summilux75 it is possible to do tolerance matching between body and lens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
simplynate Posted April 24, 2015 Share #18 Posted April 24, 2015 My Noctiux .95 back focused a bit. I tried living with it such as you are and ultimately I sent it in to NJ. It has been over 8 weeks now and they still have not completed calibration. They warned me they are extremely back logged - but 8 weeks a bit too long to be out of a 10K lens. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkP Posted April 24, 2015 Share #19 Posted April 24, 2015 My Noctiux .95 back focused a bit. I tried living with it such as you are and ultimately I sent it in to NJ. It has been over 8 weeks now and they still have not completed calibration. They warned me they are extremely back logged - but 8 weeks a bit too long to be out of a 10K lens. Join the chorus here http://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/241865-survey-your-advice-to-the-new-leica-ceo/page-9?do=findComment&comment=2804070 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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