Potential new owner in need of some advice !

[sblitz]

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I could not agree more with tookaphotoof. the M4 is a great fast camera to use, had one and swapped for an MA simply because I wanted to, not because I needed to. Point is I too find the noise inside the viewfinder distracting. Found it true with the M6 and would certainly find it true in the MP, since they are the same apart from build quality. I do think if you want a more automatic film experience jump to the M7 (don't have but many sing its praises). Barbell an M4 and an M7 and you will have all you need for whenever. BUT, for one only, buy the M4 for around $1,000 and buy lenses -- plenty of older Leica lenses are great for film and less expensive than latest models. MAny of these older versions are, after all, the lenses on which the Leica legend was built.

[leicaphilia]

Certainly my opinion only, but given a choice between equal condition M4 vs the M6, I'd take the M4 every time. THE classic M. The M6 is a fine camera, to be sure, but the M4 is special - all the best of the unmetered M line in on body. Indestructible built; easy to work on. No electronics to poop out.

 

As the a lens, the Jupiter 8 is a fine lens, and cheap.

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[MacGreg]

@sblitz the sure thing is that I can only afford one camera, that's the fact !! I agree about the lenses and that's why I have started looking at the collapsibles until I van afford a VC 35, which is my favourite length. The only reason I want a 50, is because we are having a baby early this summer and she will be my perfect portrait model !

 

@ leicaphilia I like M4's classic style a lot. Actually the more I see it around the web the more I like it ! Have you used the Jupiter 8 , since you mentioned it ?

[Nr90]

I have two collapsible elmars. They are good lenses, but are easily damaged.

I would prefer not buy a cheap one unseen.

The small package is nice though. Now if only I would remember to extend it before taking a picture xP

 

EDIT: you could also consider the leica summicron-c 40mm. It is slightly tighter then a 35, but a good lens and reasonably close to the 35 lines.

Edited March 26, 2015 by Nr90

[payasam]

It appears that many can live with the flare in the finder of the M6. My experience was that it made the camera unusable until it was corrected.

[Frase]

It appears that many can live with the flare in the finder of the M6. My experience was that it made the camera unusable until it was corrected.

 

There must have been something else wrong with your m6 to be unusable! When m6s were still available new I don't ever remember complaints about the the finder. If you want to save a bit and still have a black camera what about a m42 or m4p. I still reckon you can't go wrong with an m2 I see them all the time selling for £350ish. I've always had the opinion that the only reason to buy a leica is for the lenses save as much as you can on the body (it won't effect the pics) and spend as much as you can on the lens.

[payasam]

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I say again, the flare made my M6 unusable for me.

[MacGreg]

I've always had the opinion that the only reason to buy a leica is for the lenses save as much as you can on the body (it won't effect the pics) and spend as much as you can on the lens.

 

That's the basis of my thinking right now. Not the colour ... I might like a black camera but this will not define my decision. So far, the M4 is what saves me money to get good lenses in the future. Selling the M4 to get sth else, I guess it won't be that difficult.

[leicaphilia]

@sblitz the sure thing is that I can only afford one camera, that's the fact !! I agree about the lenses and that's why I have started looking at the collapsibles until I van afford a VC 35, which is my favourite length. The only reason I want a 50, is because we are having a baby early this summer and she will be my perfect portrait model !

 

@ leicaphilia I like M4's classic style a lot. Actually the more I see it around the web the more I like it ! Have you used the Jupiter 8 , since you mentioned it ?

 

Yes, the Jupiter is a soviet version of the Zeiss Sonnar. The build quality can at times be variable, but a good copy is every bit the optical equal of the classic Nikon/contax/leitz 50s. And they're cheap as dirt.

[tookaphotoof]

Exactly the same problem with me Payasam. I find it absolutely frustrating when I can't nail a shot because of the flare. But even if I don't experience the flare, the MP finder is so much better. Will still be taking both film cameras with me to Hongkong now. I decided to permanently have the 18mm as with F8 / F11 it doesn't really matter. The MP will be used for the other focal lengths.

[friedeye]

I think the M4 will be the most satisfying - it's a wonderful camera. The Jupiter lenses can be terrific - I have a J3, J8, and J9 - but, as others have said, the quality can be variable. I must say that my J3 is one of my favorite lenses for the way it renders, and, for a fast sonnar, has very little focus shift. You might also want to look at the Leica Summitar 50/2, a collapsible that predates the Summicron. If you search, excellent copies can be had for $250-300. The CV50 2.5 Color Skopar is also an excellent deal - very compact, with decent build quality, and modern coatings. A true value. I have one and would highly recommend it. The vintage Canon 50 1.4 is also a great lens, but larger - good copies can be found for $300-400.

 

All of the above lenses are screw mount (LTM) and require an adapter. Voigtlander makes excellent ones - I would avoid the cheaper Chinese copies, as their tolerances are less critical.

 

Enjoy your new camera!

[MacGreg]

I have been searching for a Canon 50 f1.8. Now, the seller says that there is haze in the middle element. From what I see in the pictures and the sample shots (that I attach), it mustn't be bad.

 

Would you get it ? He sells it for about 120euros , including the original lens hood.

 

I have seen other Canons, cheaper(sold for about about 90-95euros), with lots of haze or fog. I know that they can be cleaned, but ... that means extra cost and I don't know if I would trust anyone to do the cleaning.

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[Cuthbert]

The Jupiter lenses are optically quite respectable, being copies of Zeiss designs, but on Leicas they do not focus properly at near distances and large apertures. I have had this experience with the J-3, J-8 and J-9. The mis-match can be corrected, as it was with my J-3 and J-9. The J-12 has a shorter focal length and works well.

 

My experience with Soviet lenses is different, I have all the lenses you have besides the J-3, plus various industars ( I-50 and 61 mostly) and an Orion 15, all of them worked fine on my Leicas even if I tend to use them on my IIIb.

 

The J-3 being f1.5 might require shimming but I never had a problem with the f2.0 (Jupiter 8), again for Soviet stuff condition is the most important thing, most of them have been treated very badly because they were cheap, but as you said if you can get a good one they have little to envy to Leica glass, in particular the shorter focals like the J12 and Orion are excellent, I've a J12 which performs better than my Summaron, on the other side the ergonomics aren't that great and you can't change aperture on the Orion if you install a filter ().

 

I also have a Canon 50mm f1.2, very nice lens but a little soft at full aperture.

[Cuthbert]

I have been searching for a Canon 50 f1.8. Now, the seller says that there is haze in the middle element. From what I see in the pictures and the sample shots (that I attach), it mustn't be bad.

 

Would you get it ? He sells it for about 120euros , including the original lens hood.

 

Too much money for a F1.8 IMO, the coating of the central group tends to deteriorate and deposit on the third one after the iris.

 

It can be cleaned, on the net there's a tutorial on the matter.

 

https://www.rangefinderforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=88222

 

http://www.johanniels.com/index.php/camera-gear-articles/28-canon-diy-cleaning-a-1-2-50mm-rangefinder-lens

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... you can't change aperture on the Orion if you install a filter (). ...

 

The Orion is much like the Noctilux. You generally use it fully open.

 

[MacGreg]

Too much money for a F1.8 IMO,[/url]

 

Well, that's the price range for those Canons, there are even more expensive than that !!

Thanks fot he links. Doesn't seem too difficult to clean the lens.

[Cuthbert]

The Orion is much like the Noctilux. You generally use it fully open.

 

 

You CAN'T use use it fully open too! Half of the iris is always closed down at f6, theoretically if you could remove it it would be at least f2.0, but the lens is designed to remain at least half closed, in this picture you can see what I mean....it's "full" open.

 

I assume it was made this way because it's originally derived by an aeronautical design and the DOF is so deep at f6 that you don't really need to focus.

 

Marco Gavina has an interesting article on Soviet lenses and Leica, ironically he found the Orion disappointing but in my case I got one from the 70s, NOS and it's optically perfect. It gives great results in term of sharpness and lack of aberration....I addded a stupid test photo of this lens with my IIIb, I don't know if it's legal!

 

OBIETTIVI

 

Well, that's the price range for those Canons, there are even more expensive than that !!

Thanks fot he links. Doesn't seem too difficult to clean the lens.

 

Mmm...I paid my f1.2 $500 when they were something like 300 euros, pretty sure you can find the f1.4 about 150 if you search very closely.

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Edited April 9, 2015 by Cuthbert

[philipus]

It would help to know your budget. That said, if you don't need a meter then the M4 is the one to get.

 

The viewfinder will flare a lot less than the M6 (although I noticed, when I had had my M6TTL's viewfinder upgraded, that the M4 also flares, but only very, very, very rarely; I had never seen this before).

 

The M4 is wonderful in the hand and has both 35 and 50 framelines which will be useful for you.

 

As for lenses, the CV Skopar 35 is a great lens and not at all costly. For a 50, don't forget the excellent screwmount lenses out there. The collapsible Summicrons can be had for reasonable money (though has a soft front element so a filter is a good idea), the Summitar is a favourite of mine which is also plentiful and inexpensive (get a coated one with 10-blade aperture). You can find more modern 50 Summicrons, like the Rigid or Dual Range and even the next model (I forget if it's v. 2 or 3 now), for reasonable money too. It all depends on your budget. A Leica M is a light-tight box that holds the film and the lens etc. All other things being equal, each camera will take the exact same photo.

 

Since you're in Greece you can easily order from all the European dealers so check Leicashop, Red Dot Cameras, Photohaus.de, Meister Camera, Peter Loy, New Old Camera, Foto Ottica Cavour, Foto Prisma. Ffordes, Fotohandel Delfshaven etc.

 

br

Philip

[Najja]

Not to add to the confusion, which is probably going to happen, I have the M3. I love it! I have no complaints, and it was manufactured in 1957 and it works like brand new. The lens I have is the 5c (50mm) Summicron, an excellent lens. If you haven't checked out Ken Rockwell's reviews on the Leica cameras, you should do so. I'm still a great fan of my Nikon F2's, but when I got the Leica, it took photography to another level. It's expensive, but it is worth the bucks. I have no regrets in buying it. I have a meter on the camera, but I love to use a hand-held meter, a Sekonic.

 

Good luck with your decision. I know it can be tough trying to decide. I thought about it for several years before deciding to just go for it. That might be the best way to go about it.

 

"Have camera will travel"

Edited April 9, 2015 by Najja
Add another sentence that I forgot to say

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[MacGreg]

Guys, you are all being very helpful and I don't mind reading any opinion !

 

I do understand that getting in Leica's system it's quite a step, especially as far as the lenses are concerned. Sometimes I think, just go a get a russian lens and buy a camera and test it !!

 

But when I cool off I think that it might be better to wait a bit longer than rush into things. I like Leica glass, obviously ! But it can get expensive.

 

My main use of the camera will be for documentary work and in this field I like the 35mm view. Although I started in film photography with the classic 50 ...

 

So I will surely get the Color Skopar and I might later invest in a 50, if I find a good deal at local shops.