BerndReini Posted March 19, 2015 Share #21 Posted March 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Everyone keeps saying that the M240 has a better rangefinder, which I don't doubt, but the rangefinder on my M9 has been perfectly accurate since the day I got my camera, the year it was released. I have traveled to Europe and all over the US with my camera. I have never dropped it, but it hasn't been babied either. I line up the rangefinder, take the picture, and it is in focus. What kind of problems did all of you have with your M9 rangefinders? 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 19, 2015 Posted March 19, 2015 Hi BerndReini, Take a look here New M product line at Photokina 2015. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Jeff S Posted March 20, 2015 Share #22 Posted March 20, 2015 Everyone keeps saying that the M240 has a better rangefinder Some don't see a difference; others, like me, find it's somewhat easier to lock focus, and part of that may be due to increased VF contrast from internally lit frame lines, and the rest possibly resulting from better tolerances. Stefan Daniel remarked in an interview with Thorsten that the RF is the only part of the M240 borrowed from the M9, but said it's "improved". Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 20, 2015 Share #23 Posted March 20, 2015 Everyone keeps saying that the M240 has a better rangefinder, which I don't doubt, but the rangefinder on my M9 has been perfectly accurate since the day I got my camera, the year it was released. I have traveled to Europe and all over the US withmy camera. I have never dropped it, but it hasn't been babied either. I line up the rangefinder, take the picture, and it is in focus. What kind of problems did all of you have with your M9 rangefinders? None, but the M one is still an improvement in my experience. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
sblutter Posted March 20, 2015 Share #24 Posted March 20, 2015 I'm very happy with M9P & M-E back up - so skipped the 240 I'm hoping M241 will be irresistible, we'll see! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 20, 2015 Share #25 Posted March 20, 2015 I'm very happy with M9P & M-E back up - so skipped the 240 I'm hoping M241 will be irresistible, we'll see! I'm hoping it will not be... ...my M240 is still so young... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 20, 2015 Share #26 Posted March 20, 2015 And yes, a new Monochrom may well be presented at Photokina, which will take place in September 2016. I would expect the successor off the M(Typ240) sometime this summer, with a new ME being a stripped M(Typ240). So you think the next M will come well before the next MM? That would make a lot of the prognosticators wrong (including the Rumors site)….and likely disappoint some waiting for a new MM platform sometime soon. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lenshacker Posted March 20, 2015 Share #27 Posted March 20, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) A good monochrome sensor is more difficult to make than a color sensor: no interpolation to smooth out non-uniformity. It will be good news for color versions as well. I still think a Back-Side Illuminated CMOS sensor is worth waiting for, it will be coming and should solve a number of issues. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 20, 2015 Share #28 Posted March 20, 2015 (edited) So you think the next M will come well before the next MM? That would make a lot of the prognosticators wrong (including the Rumors site)….and likely disappoint some waiting for a new MM platform sometime soon. Jeff Well, Leica did tell us at the introduction that they were planning a longer product cycle for the Monochrom than the three-year cycle for the regular M cameras. Granted - the current sensor problem might speed up development - so never say never-, but backstage there was a whisper of possibly a five-year cycle, back then. Having said that, given the small number of Monochroms being sold steadily, albeit well above expectation, there is no pressing need to update the camera. It might be wise to skip the 240 variant altogether and save some R&D costs. Maybe we’ll see a Monochrom-P. Edited March 20, 2015 by jaapv 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IkarusJohn Posted March 21, 2015 Share #29 Posted March 21, 2015 I see no reason to update the Monochrom. The CCD based camera is fabulous. I agree the sensor issue is a complication, but less an issue considering the numbers sold. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 21, 2015 Share #30 Posted March 21, 2015 There seems to be something of a cult following for the CCD cameras, but it's hard to accurately predict it's size based only on internet forum representation. Maybe if the corrosion problem didn't exist there might be some basis to believe the M9/ME/MM would hold their value, but if Leica has decided not to pursue a permanent solution, the value of these cameras will probably hold up only as long as Leica's supply of replacement sensors. Six months ago my local Leica dealer was not even interested in taking a M9 off me in PX against a Monacrom. Having said that a M240 will have little value 4 years old or as soon as a replacement is announced. The sensible solution for someone new to M digital is buy a used M9 ,have the sensor changed and use it for a few years. BrianP Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share #31 Posted March 21, 2015 (edited) A used M9 is worth that because it is a 5-6 years old digital camera. Prices had been drifting down steadily for a while. The M9 is also now blighted by the corrosion problem. Leica's goodwill guarantee provides some reassurance but the uncertainty over repair timescales, etc means that the problem is still off-putting and this will be a further drag on used prices. I was told that the value is indipendent by the years, but it is simply linked to how well is preserved the camera. I never see a Leica auction on eBay telling the year of the camera, but just the condition. If you have an M9 purchased in 2011 and a M-E purchased in the 2012, similar condition and number of actuations, their value will be more or less the same, and because the M-E price at new was sensibly less than M9, both will be aligned to the M-E value. This is basically due to the fact that who buys the camera for use, and not for collection, don't care about the name, and will buy the cheaper one, most probably the M-E instead of the M9, if the M-E cost less. Or will be the M-E new instead of the M9 used. As final consequence if somebody wants to sell an M9, will be forced to sell it at a competitive cost versus the M-E. I personally purchased the M-E in May 2014 with the Summarit-M 50/2.5 at 4800euros, when the cheapest used M9 on the market was 4000 euros. Now you can find an M9 at 2500 euros. This is just my consideration, but I guess that the Leica marketing made a mistake selling the M-E at a lower price than the M9, because this has reduced the used value of the M9 more than expected. If Leica wanted to continue to produce the previous camera because there was still market, why they didn't keep selling the M9 at the regular price? If so, it will a customer choice to buy the M9 or the M, depending on what he prefers. Edited March 21, 2015 by MaDeVa Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted March 21, 2015 Author Share #32 Posted March 21, 2015 Six months ago my local Leica dealer was not even interested in taking a M9 off me in PX against a Monacrom. Having said that a M240 will have little value 4 years old or as soon as a replacement is announced. The sensible solution for someone new to M digital is buy a used M9 ,have the sensor changed and use it for a few years.BrianP When I knew about the sensor problem, I asked my Leica dealer to trade in the M-E purchased 5 months before for a M(240): they offered me 1700 euros! I'm still using happily my M-E, I don't think I will never sell it if the prices on used market will go further down, it will a a back-up camera and I will ask the sensor replacement if any problem will occur. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
fotografr Posted April 1, 2015 Share #33 Posted April 1, 2015 As far as I'm concerned, the value of a camera lies in the usefulness to the person whose hands it is in, not in how much one could sell it for on the used market. I'm certainly not about to sell my M now out of fear the market value will drop when a new version is introduced. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
VictoriaC Posted April 2, 2015 Share #34 Posted April 2, 2015 I look forward to testing an M240 (or later) based Monochrom against M240 based b/w print results. The proof will be in the print…or not…for me.Jeff Jeff, When you produce b/w prints from M240 files are you still shooting RAW and converting on your computer to b/w or do you shoot JPEG and use the b/w in-camera film mode? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
IWC Doppel Posted April 2, 2015 Share #35 Posted April 2, 2015 Some don't see a difference; others, like me, find it's somewhat easier to lock focus, and part of that may be due to increased VF contrast from internally lit frame lines, and the rest possibly resulting from better tolerances. Stefan Daniel remarked in an interview with Thorsten that the RF is the only part of the M240 borrowed from the M9, but said it's "improved". Jeff I assume you are referring to the M8 in terms of user experience ? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 2, 2015 Share #36 Posted April 2, 2015 I assume you are referring to the M8 in terms of user experience ? Huh? My comment comes from using the M240...for almost 2 years…and frequently writing about it here. But, yes, I've owned the M8.2 for 6 years (still as back-up) and experimented with the M9. Oh, and over 30 years using film Ms. Jeff Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted April 2, 2015 Share #37 Posted April 2, 2015 Jeff,When you produce b/w prints from M240 files are you still shooting RAW and converting on your computer to b/w or do you shoot JPEG and use the b/w in-camera film mode? Always DNG (RAW). I see no reason to waste data, especially if I later want to be able to access and re-process any files for re-printing. After 35 years of darkroom experience, I've accepted 'post-processing' as an essential part of the print workflow, and toward that end I want the best neg…and the best file…to start. The rest is up to me, not the camera. Jeff 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jennifer Posted April 9, 2015 Share #38 Posted April 9, 2015 June '15! I have my name down for one. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted April 13, 2015 Share #39 Posted April 13, 2015 I was told that the value is indipendent by the years, but it is simply linked to how well is preserved the camera. I never see a Leica auction on eBay telling the year of the camera, but just the condition. If you have an M9 purchased in 2011 and a M-E purchased in the 2012, similar condition and number of actuations, their value will be more or less the same, and because the M-E price at new was sensibly less than M9, both will be aligned to the M-E value. This is basically due to the fact that who buys the camera for use, and not for collection, don't care about the name, and will buy the cheaper one, most probably the M-E instead of the M9, if the M-E cost less. Or will be the M-E new instead of the M9 used. As final consequence if somebody wants to sell an M9, will be forced to sell it at a competitive cost versus the M-E. I personally purchased the M-E in May 2014 with the Summarit-M 50/2.5 at 4800euros, when the cheapest used M9 on the market was 4000 euros. Now you can find an M9 at 2500 euros. This is just my consideration, but I guess that the Leica marketing made a mistake selling the M-E at a lower price than the M9, because this has reduced the used value of the M9 more than expected. If Leica wanted to continue to produce the previous camera because there was still market, why they didn't keep selling the M9 at the regular price? If so, it will a customer choice to buy the M9 or the M, depending on what he prefers. I just ordered a new M-E for the same reason. Used M9s are cheaper, but not enough cheaper to cover that new camera smell (and Leica warranty). Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
asiafish Posted April 13, 2015 Share #40 Posted April 13, 2015 I see no reason to update the Monochrom. The CCD based camera is fabulous. I agree the sensor issue is a complication, but less an issue considering the numbers sold. And not an issue at all since Leica has assured us they will stand behind it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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