MaDeVa Posted March 18, 2015 Share #1 Posted March 18, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) As already wrote on other post or website, it seems that Leica will present a new MM based on M(240) at Photokina. I got some very reliable confirmation on the above statement, and I got also the almost confirmation that the M-E will be discontinued. If so, after Photokina 2015 anyone would like to have a Leica CCD based will be forced to buy an used a Leica. I have currently seens, at least in Italy, the value of the digital Leica M's going down on the private market, and I know that Leica, at least again in Italy, is promoting through the official Leica Shops, the trade in of the M9/M-E (not at a very good price, this is my opinion) for an upgrade to the M/M-P. Having this scenario, what do you think will be the value of Leica digital cameras in the future? Do you see a grow in value of the CCD digital cameras? Or a further decrease? Should be a good investment to buy now a CMOS camera trading in a CCD camera, or should be better to wait after the next Photokina, and may be a further more to see the reaction of the market? Regards, Massimo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted March 18, 2015 Posted March 18, 2015 Hi MaDeVa, Take a look here New M product line at Photokina 2015. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
andybarton Posted March 18, 2015 Share #2 Posted March 18, 2015 The next Photokina will not be until 2016 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted March 18, 2015 Share #3 Posted March 18, 2015 There seems to be something of a cult following for the CCD cameras, but it's hard to accurately predict it's size based only on internet forum representation. Maybe if the corrosion problem didn't exist there might be some basis to believe the M9/ME/MM would hold their value, but if Leica has decided not to pursue a permanent solution, the value of these cameras will probably hold up only as long as Leica's supply of replacement sensors. 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjames9142 Posted March 18, 2015 Share #4 Posted March 18, 2015 My dealer tells me that the 240-based MM will be released in June. I believe him. Anyone who thinks any digital body will not lose significant value over time is deluded. The good news is that I can get (actually just missed) a used M9 with no sensor problem and a bit of warranty left, for $3300 Can. I am going to stick with the M9 and the MM for as long as I can, because they work for me, and frankly, I don 't know how noticeably better the 240MM will be, other than a bunch of bells and whistles that I don 't need, and which for me needlessly complicate the screen. 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 18, 2015 Share #5 Posted March 18, 2015 Better viewfinder/rangefinder, lovely shutter. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tookaphotoof Posted March 18, 2015 Share #6 Posted March 18, 2015 As already wrote on other post or website, it seems that Leica will present a new MM based on M(240) at Photokina.I got some very reliable confirmation on the above statement, and I got also the almost confirmation that the M-E will be discontinued. If so, after Photokina 2015 anyone would like to have a Leica CCD based will be forced to buy an used a Leica. Your source told you we have an extra Photokina this year?! Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted March 18, 2015 Share #7 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) Should be a good investment to buy now a CMOS camera trading in a CCD camera, or should be better to wait after the next Photokina, and may be a further more to see the reaction of the market? Regards, Massimo A digital camera is NEVER an investment... (Well, maybe some exotic special edition, if you are very lucky...) Buy a camera to use, not to sell. And yes, a new Monochrom may well be presented at Photokina, which will take place in September 2016. I would expect the successor off the M(Typ240) sometime this summer, with a new ME being a stripped M(Typ240). Edited March 18, 2015 by jaapv 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 18, 2015 Share #8 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) I am going to stick with the M9 and the MM for as long as I can, because they work for me, and frankly, I don 't know how noticeably better the 240MM will be, other than a bunch of bells and whistles that I don 't need, and which for me needlessly complicate the screen. Better RF, better shutter release and quiet re-cock, 2m illuminated frame lines, better battery life, faster processor, better weather sealing, better tripod connection and, so far, no sensor problems. The screen and controls are no more complicated than my M8.2, as the menu allows for totally disabling LV and video. I use mine the vast majority of the time as a 'tradtional' RF M camera, and this is the best built digital M for that. Nothing about 'bells and whistles' for me. And the files are as good or better than my M8.2 files, which are superb. I look forward to testing an M240 (or later) based Monochrom against M240 based b/w print results. The proof will be in the print…or not…for me. Jeff Edited March 18, 2015 by Jeff S 8 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share #9 Posted March 18, 2015 The next Photokina will not be until 2016 2015 —> 2016 Typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share #10 Posted March 18, 2015 Your source told you we have an extra Photokina this year?! 2015—> 2016 typo Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted March 18, 2015 A digital camera is NEVER an investment... (Well, maybe some exotic special edition, if you are very lucky...) Buy a camera to use, not to sell. And yes, a new Monochrom may well be presented at Photokina, which will take place in September 2016. I would expect the successor off the M(Typ240) sometime this summer, with a new ME being a stripped M(Typ240). Sooner or later a digital camera become old. In the digital world, camera, phone or any other thing, if a new one is on the way usually it is a bad "investment" if you buy the previous one at full price. Now usually there is no reason that the old digital thing increases the value on the used market, but for a Leica CCD, looking at how many prefer the CCD vs CMOS, this could be the case. If not, like for any other digital thing, you will loose at least 50% the day after the new one is available, especially if at the same price of the previous. I know that I will not stuck with my digital Leica forever, so for me makes sense to speak about investment. rgd M Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 18, 2015 Share #12 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) There seems to be something of a cult following for the CCD cameras. You said the correct word : Cult: 'a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.' first definition that pops up in google ..... how apt in the light of Dave Farkas' thread .... Edited March 18, 2015 by thighslapper Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
thighslapper Posted March 18, 2015 Share #13 Posted March 18, 2015 frankly, I don 't know how noticeably better the 240MM will be, other than a bunch of bells and whistles that I don 't need, and which for me needlessly complicate the screen. I think you will find that this time Leica will not just shoehorn a monochrome sensor into an existing body and leave the firmware essentially the same ....... note what they did with the M60 ...... I think you will find an MM240 will be a TRUE B&W camera with menu options and functionality tailored to pure B&W use. I think we all might be pleasantly surprised ..... 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
otto.f Posted March 18, 2015 Share #14 Posted March 18, 2015 I would expect the successor off the M(Typ240) sometime this summer, with a new ME being a stripped M(Typ240). I'll wait for a ME-P(240) Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaDeVa Posted March 18, 2015 Author Share #15 Posted March 18, 2015 (edited) In my opinion the "E" policy of Leica is purely like cheating the customers that purchased the previous (basically same) model sometime before at full price. The M9 was about 6000€ in 2012 when Leica introduced the M-E at 4900€. After 2 years in some country Leica started offering also some kit of the M-E with the Summarit-M 50/2.5 lens basically for free. The result is that the value of an used M9 is now around 2500/2800€ instead of 4000€, as with 4900€ you can buy the M-E new with the Summarit-M 50/2.5 (In Italy), and if you don't like (or need the lens) you can resell it for 800€ in a minute. Not something that I was expecting from a company like Leica. Edited March 18, 2015 by jaapv offensive language Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted March 19, 2015 Share #16 Posted March 19, 2015 The result is that the value of an used M9 is now around 2500/2800€ instead of 4000€, A used M9 is worth that because it is a 5-6 years old digital camera. Prices had been drifting down steadily for a while. The M9 is also now blighted by the corrosion problem. Leica's goodwill guarantee provides some reassurance but the uncertainty over repair timescales, etc means that the problem is still off-putting and this will be a further drag on used prices. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjames9142 Posted March 19, 2015 Share #17 Posted March 19, 2015 I look forward to testing an M240 (or later) based Monochrom against M240 based b/w print results. The proof will be in the print…or not…for me. Jeff Jeff, wouldn't the real comparison between two Monochromes? A sensor without a Bayer array really is a different beast. I recognize all the improvements the 240 brought, but I have no problem with the shutter or the frame lines on then M9. I have always have spare batteries, but I must say I would appreciate the weather-proofing, because I am an all-weather photographer. Travelling Light - Geoffrey James http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/newreply.php?do=newreply&p=2905704 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
luigi bertolotti Posted March 19, 2015 Share #18 Posted March 19, 2015 As already wrote on other post or website, it seems that Leica will present a new MM based on M(240) at Photokina.I got some very reliable confirmation on the above statement, and I got also the almost confirmation that the M-E will be discontinued. If so, after Photokina 2015 anyone would like to have a Leica CCD based will be forced to buy an used a Leica. I have currently seens, at least in Italy, the value of the digital Leica M's going down on the private market, and I know that Leica, at least again in Italy, is promoting through the official Leica Shops, the trade in of the M9/M-E (not at a very good price, this is my opinion) for an upgrade to the M/M-P. Having this scenario, what do you think will be the value of Leica digital cameras in the future? LOW as for any digital device... unless (maybe) you buy some costly special edition and keep it unused / boxed etc... Do you see a grow in value of the CCD digital cameras? Or a further decrease? Well.. depending on the tenure of Leica as a tasty brand in the next 25-30 years... I admit that a well preserved (even if used) Monochrom could have a certain value being a Monochrome CCD camera... a combination that 20-30 years from now could be viewed as a fascinating oddity... Should be a good investment to buy now a CMOS camera trading in a CCD camera, or should be better to wait after the next Photokina, and may be a further more to see the reaction of the market? Digital+Investiment=Oxymoron Regards, Massimo . 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted March 19, 2015 Share #19 Posted March 19, 2015 You said the correct word : Cult: 'a cult is a religious or social group with socially deviant or novel beliefs and practices.' first definition that pops up in google ..... how apt in the light of Dave Farkas' thread .... Describes we Leica M disciples to a tee. A guy/gal could be called worse, you know. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff S Posted March 19, 2015 Share #20 Posted March 19, 2015 (edited) Jeff, wouldn't the real comparison between two Monochromes? Not for me, as I already own the M240 and would not consider owning the current MM given my satisfaction with the M improvements…and that was before the latest M9/MM potential sensor issues. YMMV. And, as I noted, the test for me will be in the print, which is already superb using the M240. Print results depend on far more than the camera. But if the M240 replacement comes before the next MM, I'll test that, too, in my print workflow if improvements warrant. Jeff Edited March 19, 2015 by Jeff S 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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