Herr Barnack Posted February 3, 2015 Share #1 Posted February 3, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Here are some musings on the one question that every professional photographer HATES to hear - When a Client asks for your Raw Files, Should You Give Them? | Resource Magazine Thoughts? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted February 3, 2015 Posted February 3, 2015 Hi Herr Barnack, Take a look here "Can I have the RAW files?". I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
01af Posted February 4, 2015 Share #2 Posted February 4, 2015 Fortunately, most clients have no idea what a raw file is. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted February 4, 2015 Share #3 Posted February 4, 2015 Here are some musings on the one question that every professional photographer HATES to hear - When a Client asks for your Raw Files, Should You Give Them? | Resource Magazine Thoughts? Copies Only & Watermark them. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jip Posted February 4, 2015 Share #4 Posted February 4, 2015 I never give my Digital NeGatives or Negatives from my camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lct Posted February 4, 2015 Share #5 Posted February 4, 2015 I sell technical pics like this to companies who ask me the raw files and buy my copyrights as well. No problem for me. Client preferred another samples with less smoke so you may copy this one for free if you like it (M8.2, Elmarit 135/2.8). http://lctphot.smugmug.com/photos/1579262573_C767Rq9-D.jpg Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdlaing Posted February 4, 2015 Share #6 Posted February 4, 2015 When I was doing it professionally my largest client very deftly explained it to me. We hired you to provide photographs. We own the photographs in their entirety. This is not an art gallery. You are not selling these photos to the general public. You will provide the raw files when shooting is complete. We don't care if you keep a copy of the raw files. If we catch you showing those files to anyone without our permission we will secure and apartment and meals for you in the Leavanworth Federal Penetentiary. Have a nice day. They paid well so I followed their instructions. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 4, 2015 Share #7 Posted February 4, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thoughts? If you took the photograph and it wasn't connected at the time with a paying client then you should keep control over the image and sell the customer a copy unless you want to sell the exclusive rights to it. If on the other hand somebody is paying you to do a job, and in which you have no rights over reproduction anyway, then the clients 'owns' the file, they are in effect hiring you, your skill, and any resulting photographs are theirs. Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manoleica Posted February 4, 2015 Share #8 Posted February 4, 2015 If you took the photograph and it wasn't connected at the time with a paying client then you should keep control over the image and sell the customer a copy. If on the other hand somebody is paying you to do a job, and in which you have no rights over reproduction anyway, then the clients 'owns' the file, they are in effect hiring you, your skill, and any resulting photographs are theirs. Steve We are Obliged to You M'lud.. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jedi996sps Posted February 4, 2015 Share #9 Posted February 4, 2015 The wedding photographer i hired to shoot my daughters wedding, refused point blank to part with his RAW files and instead gave me hi res jpegs. His logic was that if i amended his raw files, it would no longer be his work. Which, kinda misses the point that i could just as easily alter the jpegs. I was not too fussed as it was unlikely that i would do anything other than either view his files digitally or just print further copies from his files. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Luke_Miller Posted February 4, 2015 Share #10 Posted February 4, 2015 My contracts always state who holds the rights to the images and in what format they will be delivered. I would not deliver raw files unless the contract required them and all rights transferred to the client. In other words - the images were no longer attributable to me, but to the client. I would not want images I took, processed by someone I had no control over, and then used as an example of my work. 4 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted February 4, 2015 Author Share #11 Posted February 4, 2015 (edited) My contracts always state who holds the rights to the images and in what format they will be delivered. I would not deliver raw files unless the contract required them and all rights transferred to the client. In other words - the images were no longer attributable to me, but to the client. I would not want images I took, processed by someone I had no control over, and then used as an example of my work. That's pretty much my viewpoint. Of course, all rights buyouts are extremely expensive (and extremely profitable for the photographer)... Which brings up another question: How would do price an all rights buyout? For discussion purposes, let us say that a company contacts you and wants you to photograph their [product, facility, production methods or whatever] and asks what it would cost. You quote them a price of $10,000 USD with a given package of usage rights. They respond by saying "we want an all rights buyout with a copyright transfer of the images." How do you price that? Do you price it as original quote ($10,000 USD) multiplied by a factor of 2x? 3x? 5x? 10x? Is there a standard formula (knowing that it would vary from market to market and from country to country) for calculating the cost of an all rights buyout with a copyright transfer? Edited February 4, 2015 by Carlos Danger Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuck Albertson Posted February 4, 2015 Share #12 Posted February 4, 2015 If you took the photograph and it wasn't connected at the time with a paying client then you should keep control over the image and sell the customer a copy unless you want to sell the exclusive rights to it. If on the other hand somebody is paying you to do a job, and in which you have no rights over reproduction anyway, then the clients 'owns' the file, they are in effect hiring you, your skill, and any resulting photographs are theirs. Steve Not in the US, Steve. Even if someone pays you to take the photos, you own the copyright unless there's an agreement to transfer it. "Work for hire" under the Copyright Act applies to works by employees (on the payroll, taxes withheld, benefits paid, etc.) of whoever commissioned the work, not independent contractors. That doesn't mean some clients won't try to tell you the opposite, mind you. 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
macjonny1 Posted February 5, 2015 Share #13 Posted February 5, 2015 My contracts always state who holds the rights to the images and in what format they will be delivered. I would not deliver raw files unless the contract required them and all rights transferred to the client. In other words - the images were no longer attributable to me' date=' but to the client. I would not want images I took, processed by someone I had no control over, and then used as an example of my work.[/quote'] And you couldn't do this with JPEGs? This whole thread makes no sense. Just price the release of the RAWs a bit more for whatever it's worth. Someone else will come along and offer it so may as well offer a product if there is demand for it Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted February 5, 2015 Share #14 Posted February 5, 2015 Not in the US, Steve. Even if someone pays you to take the photos, you own the copyright unless there's an agreement to transfer it. "Work for hire" under the Copyright Act applies to works by employees (on the payroll, taxes withheld, benefits paid, etc.) of whoever commissioned the work, not independent contractors. That doesn't mean some clients won't try to tell you the opposite, mind you. But wouldn't owning copyright be a technical issue, without waivers and releases the photographer couldn't independently sell or distribute work done for a client without their permission, could he? Steve Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted February 5, 2015 Share #15 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) Not in the US, Steve. Even if someone pays you to take the photos, you own the copyright unless there's an agreement to transfer it...... The same applies in the UK. Unless controlled by law or other agreements. (Think military or other sensitive or controlled material as an example). Edited February 5, 2015 by honcho Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted February 5, 2015 Share #16 Posted February 5, 2015 But wouldn't owning copyright be a technical issue, without waivers and releases the photographer couldn't independently sell or distribute work done for a client without their permission, could he? Steve Probably not, but if he has any sense he will reserve his/her rights over usage for advertising, promotion etc. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
honcho Posted February 5, 2015 Share #17 Posted February 5, 2015 And you couldn't do this with JPEGs?... No. Read the terms of use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 5, 2015 Share #18 Posted February 5, 2015 (edited) If you took the photograph and it wasn't connected at the time with a paying client then you should keep control over the image and sell the customer a copy unless you want to sell the exclusive rights to it. If on the other hand somebody is paying you to do a job, and in which you have no rights over reproduction anyway, then the clients 'owns' the file, they are in effect hiring you, your skill, and any resulting photographs are theirs. Steve They don't own anything unless you agree give it to them. You should have a contract but even without one you remain the owner. Unless they produce a contract before the shoot takes place, that transfers ownership to them, and you agree to it in writing, agreed to by email also constitutes, then it's always the property of the photographers. Usage is always separate to production cost. In terms of Raw files, i have had the rare occaision that a client has requested them but I have never once given them over. The answer is simply no. Edited February 5, 2015 by Paul J Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul J Posted February 5, 2015 Share #19 Posted February 5, 2015 That's pretty much my viewpoint. Of course, all rights buyouts are extremely expensive (and extremely profitable for the photographer)... Which brings up another question: How would do price an all rights buyout? For discussion purposes, let us say that a company contacts you and wants you to photograph their [product, facility, production methods or whatever] and asks what it would cost. You quote them a price of $10,000 USD with a given package of usage rights. They respond by saying "we want an all rights buyout with a copyright transfer of the images." How do you price that? Do you price it as original quote ($10,000 USD) multiplied by a factor of 2x? 3x? 5x? 10x? Is there a standard formula (knowing that it would vary from market to market and from country to country) for calculating the cost of an all rights buyout with a copyright transfer? It's pretty rare to be asked for a buyout these days, personally I don't do them. Generally it's just wrong or lazy terminology, sometimes it's just them trying it on. People often ask for a "buyout" when what they need is a 3 year multi region and media usage license. You just need to tie down what the needs are and get it in a contract. Semantics can not be ignored. The amounts really depends on the company, the media, the region, and the period. In most cases 1 year UK Below the line usage starts at +100%, above the line usage starting at +300%. Worldwide is +450%, for example. 2 years, is +200%. It's pretty rare you go over 3 years these days. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Barnack Posted February 5, 2015 Author Share #20 Posted February 5, 2015 Thanks for posting that, Paul. Along the lines of this discussion, I just now found this short article - Dealing with Demands for "All Rights" Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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