I think I want to try shoot film...

[jonnyboy]

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Hi Gary, I actually thought for whatever reason the mod deleted my messages I was getting confused...

 

You know what, I got my head around it all week-end and Im making moves now!

The first roll was so so....the second didnt came out at all, lost all the pictures! Then I read a bunch of pages and stuff and I finally understood I was using too much Developer. So this morning I processed 2 rolls together, came out pretty good I was happy with the results but a lot of scratches on the negatives...I just had a look at the Paterson squeegee and I can see they not smooth at all - I wont use it anymore!
Tonight I developed 2 more rolls...and decided NOT to use the squeegee...nice, not a single scratch BUT plenty of spot from water   Can you guys reccomend me the best option to dry the film? Should I buy a better squeegee?

Also, this would be a bit OT but I didnt wanted to open too many threads...I recently bought a Olympus T32 flash which works well on Leica....well, i thought it was! I bought it in a shop where they run out of Leica's flash but they reccomended this Olympus, it was cheaper and it bend, so I can bounce it. I tryied first on my M8 to see a quick result: I like the fact I can bounce it but is really really strong. And when I mean strong I mean I have to shoot at f/11 & shutter speed 250th/s for whatever reason it wouldnt fire anythire higher than 250/s). Anyway, I had the chance to put it on my M4-2...and I kept in mind to keep the shutter at 250/s....and ALL pictures came out like this:

 

Crazy, isnt it? it feels like the shutter may be too quick or too slow for it? Does anyone experience this and could tell me how to get around it?

Other than that, I was getting really frustrated loosing those rolls but now Im really happy Im getting to know how to develop my own film, I know there is a huge amount of things to improve but I feel like I'm gettin into it! And it will be a relief to stop wasting money developing all those films.... Here's a shot I think it came out good from my second batch:

 

[url=https://flic.kr/p/s5ESmV]

oh, last question....Can I re-use the developer?? or do I have to do a fresh mix everytime?

Many thanks to all the input you guys putting through those pages, I'm sure they will come back handy for people starting with the same things

Edited April 12, 2015 by jonnyboy

[gbealnz]

LOL, the mods didn't delete them, they were posted while the forum was transitioning, and were not "kept" unfortunately.

 

Forget the squeege, if anything, I run the film between my fingers, not usually recommended, but it was how I learnt about 50 years ago, and still do it, occasionally.

 

After the rinse, and with a full tank of water, put a couple of very small drops of "PhotoFlo" solution, Kodak used to make it, but now I use simple kitchen dish washing liquid, BUT ONLY A COUPLE OF SMALL DROPS, not too much. This will make the water a bit soapy, but will help the film to dry better. Or use distilled water, and maybe one drop, for the final "rinse/soak".

 

Dust/scratches are part of film, and my first job was in a processing lab. My boss had a saying, "cleanliness is next to godliness".

 

Half exposed pic is from the focal plane shutter. I don't have an M8, but the shutter speed dial will have a lightning bolt symbol on it, possibly about 1/60th of a second. That is the speed you need to use, NOT higher than.

 

Good to see some headway, you'll not look back now. Slow down, take your time, enjoy it.

Gary

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[A miller]

Hi Johnnyboy,

 

Loved reading about your film journey! The M4 was a great choice.

 

I would counsel a little caution as there are many blind alleys in film photography. This about your desired end result, and how to get there with maximum quality and minimal waste.

 

First, good camera, good film and well processed (I think you have to really get your head around developing the film yourself) - from there things get complex. I used to get all my films developed, and order contact prints. I could then decide which images I liked and might further process. Scanning is probably the best approach these days. I use a Plustech scanner, with Vuescan software. I then import the raw file (TIFF) into LightRoom.

 

Once you have your digital file, you come to the next fork in the road - what to do with the file or the negative.

 

Many here will say there's no substitute for a wet print from a negative. I don't really agree with that - if the scan and post processing is done well, the results can be exceptional ... if done well. I send my Monochrom files to Whitewall, and they're fabulous.

 

So, you have the choice - select the negatives you want properly printed and find a professional printing lab to do the shot you want. If you have a contact sheet, you can show them what adjustments you want made. Or, rely on your digital image, process it yourself and email it to someone like Whitewall.

 

The final choice is to print yourself. I used to think this was fun ... If I was anywhere near London, I'd give you my enlarger, safelight and trays, but I'm a long way away!

 

I can't help but think from the moment you frame the shot, everything has the potential to go downhill - lens, film, developing, [scanning] and printing. Control what you can, and forget about the rest. Developing film just takes care.

 

I get someone else to print.

 

Cheers

John

 

PS - Ansel Adams three books - Camera, Film and Print - are a useful start for you.

John - i also use Whitewall for printing digital files, and in particular their premium Ilford B&W baryta paper for b&w photos. I actually have conducted a few experiments whereby i compared a Whitewall print on Ilford baryta paper with a wet print of the same image usbg an Ilfor multi-grade BW paper. I first made the Whitewall prints and then gave it to my lab as an instruction manul for how i wanted the wet prints.

 

Once the prints were side by side, it wasnt even close, the wet prints smoked the Whitewall prints. The blacks were blacker in the right places and the grain was mich more pleasng. No worrying about getting the noise reduction and sharpenng just rght, which Whitewall wont help you with. Going forward, i have pretty much limited my digital printing to color film scans (at least for now).

[adan]

Tonight I developed 2 more rolls...and decided NOT to use the squeegee...nice, not a single scratch BUT plenty of spot from water   Can you guys reccomend me the best option to dry the film? Should I buy a better squeegee?

I recently bought a Olympus T32 flash which works well on Leica....well, i thought it was! ........And when I mean strong I mean I have to shoot at f/11 & shutter speed 250th/s for whatever reason it wouldnt fire anythire higher than 250/s). Anyway, I had the chance to put it on my M4-2...and I kept in mind to keep the shutter at 250/s....and ALL pictures came out like this....

 

oh, last question....Can I re-use the developer?? or do I have to do a fresh mix everytime?

 

RE: film drying - get a wetting agent like Kodak Photoflo 200. It makes the last bath run off in sheets, instead of beading up and leaving spots. I use it all the time (with no squeegee) and never get water spots or scratches. Soak film in Photoflo as the last step for 30 seconds. Pull the film off the reel and hold it up stretched out between your hands at an angle of 45 degrees, so the liquid runs off and down to one corner - for 15 secs or so. Hang it up to dry.

 

RE: Flash - as gbealnz says, you cannot use faster than 1/50th second for flash pictures with a film Leica. That is the shortest time where the whole piece of film is uncovered by the shutter. Marked on the shutter dial with lightning bolt symbol between 1/30 and 1/60. You can use longer shutter times, (1/30-1 second).

 

RE: Reusing developer - depends totally on the developer you are using. Some are designed for one-shot (use once and throw away), some can be reused several times, some can be reused but require "replenishment" (adding a bit of fresh chemical to the bottle with each use).

 

The developers you dilute heavily right before use (HC-110 1:32, Ilford DD-X 1:4, Rodinal 1:50, etc.) always get used once and thrown away.

 

Others, that are mixed in large quantities of "stock" solution, like Kodak D-76 or XTOL, or Ilford ID-11, can be reused and/or replenished. Instructions should tell you how many rolls "capacity" a quart or gallon can do successfully.

[Doc Henry]

John - i also use Whitewall for printing digital files, and in particular their premium Ilford B&W baryta paper for b&w photos. I actually have conducted a few experiments whereby i compared a Whitewall print on Ilford baryta paper with a wet print of the same image usbg an Ilfor multi-grade BW paper. I first made the Whitewall prints and then gave it to my lab as an instruction manul for how i wanted the wet prints.

 

Once the prints were side by side, it wasnt even close, the wet prints smoked the Whitewall prints. The blacks were blacker in the right places and the grain was mich more pleasng. No worrying about getting the noise reduction and sharpenng just rght, which Whitewall wont help you with. Going forward, i have pretty much limited my digital printing to color film scans (at least for now).

Adam, my Leica adviser has a laboratory (automaton) for color paper and

I enlarge in 30x40 cms all my color pictures.

It's better in general rendering (because I have compared) than printing with his

Epson digital pro.

Best

Henry

[jonnyboy]

Amazing...thanks very much for all the advice....

 

I noticed the film are really wet at the end of all the process, is it the best option to hang it like that? Those squeegee takes off a good amount of water, what a shame they scratch the film!

I used some wetting agent but I cant tell the difference...when exactly should I put it? So far I have been doing it just before the last '10min wash' is that correct?

Oh what a shame i busted all those shots using the flash in the wrong way! Never realised there was a flash sign on the 1/60th shutter speed...I will have to test it again!

Oh...would you guys reccomend any developer in particular? I just run out the one I bought, in doubt I throw it away everytime I used it....

[Broadside]

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I used some wetting agent but I cant tell the difference...when exactly should I put it? So far I have been doing it just before the last '10min wash' is that correct?

 

A few drops of wetting agent should be added after the final wash, just before hanging the film up to dry. It breaks the surface tension and allows the water to flow off the film.

If your water is very "hard" i.e. full of calcium and magnesium-containing minerals such as limestone, chalk and dolomite, then it is best to use distilled or de-ionized water for the final wash. This helps prevent water-marks on drying.

[menos I M6]

Jonny, follow Broadside's advice - the wetting agent is used to break the surface tension of water, to help the water to run off the film better without leaving water drops on the film which will dry and leave "water spots" from the mineral residues after all H2O has evaporated.

 

A trick to have less water on the film to dry is to take the film reel out of the tank after the final washing and knock the entire film reel with the film still inside with it's flat side on a table covered with a kitchen towel (I simply slap the reel a few times into one open hand which works also).

This way you have a lot less water on the film to run off and dry.

 

If you have used a wetting agent in a final rinse (after washing), the water will nicely run off the film.

[adan]

I used some wetting agent but I cant tell the difference...when exactly should I put it? So far I have been doing it just before the last '10min wash' is that correct?

 

No. The wetting agent needs to be THE last step. It needs to be ON the film as it drys.

 

Mix the wetting agent as a separate chemical in its own bottle (you dilute it - about 1:200 for Kodak Photoflo, or as others have said, a small eyedropper-full to a tankful (8 ounces/250cc) of water). After the final running-water wash, pour in the diluted wetting agent mixture for 30 seconds. Then, when you take the film off the reel to hang for drying, just hold it up stretched out, for 15-30 seconds, to let most of the water/wetting agent run off by gravity. Then hang it up to dry.

 

If you put the wetting agent in during or before the final wash - it will just get washed away and do you no good at all.

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Edited April 15, 2015 by adan

[jonnyboy]

I finished to develop my last 2 films today using the technique, flawless!   I used the wetting agent too and I am definitely pleased with the results...i just had 2-3 pictures with some small spot I'm still learning so I guess there is room for mistakes!
Also, I changed developer and I bought Ilfosol 3 now...I have to say I'm really happy with the results, images are wayyy less grainy...I lost the contrast but I scan my film for now so I dont mind handle it in post...here's a little sample:

 

 

I'm enjoyin the process now, it was really stressful in the first moment when I wasted almost 3 rolls but now is all under control, I can finally get back and shoot!

Edited April 18, 2015 by jonnyboy

[gbealnz]

Lookin' good. Keep at it.

Gary

[Doc Henry]

Lookin' good. Keep at it.

Gary

Yes very nice , good development !

Congrat Johny

Best

Henry

[menos I M6]

Very nice Jonny!

 

Now that you have the pesky workflow roughly down and working, you can concentrate on shooting film and enjoying!

The file looks excellent!

 

After a while you will adjust and optimize here and there as it goes and sure at some point another thread will read:

"I think I want to try printing film..."

 

;-)

[gbealnz]

LOL, too true Dirk, too true.

Gary

[Doc Henry]

Gary, so go for film , leave your digital gear in its bag

Cheers

Henry

[gbealnz]

Gary, so go for film , leave your digital gear in its bag

Cheers

Henry

 

It is an appealing idea Henry, but I am actually combining the two mediums, shooting film with the M6 (and Leicaflex if the mood takes me, oh, and I suppose also the 1A, very occasionally) as well as digital with the T, and X-Vario plus X1.

 

Im looking to trim either the T or the X-Vario, likely the X-Vario.

Gary

[jonnyboy]

Very nice Jonny!

 

Now that you have the pesky workflow roughly down and working, you can concentrate on shooting film and enjoying!

The file looks excellent!

 

After a while you will adjust and optimize here and there as it goes and sure at some point another thread will read:

"I think I want to try printing film..."

 

;-)

 

 

:D

[Doc Henry]

Jonny, an interesting link :

http://mfphotography.ca/blog/2014/3/20/how-to-choose-a-film-leica-m-rangefinder

Best

Henry

[jonnyboy]

Jonny, an interesting link :

http://mfphotography.ca/blog/2014/3/20/how-to-choose-a-film-leica-m-rangefinder

Best

Henry

 

Lovely!

 

I'm happy with my M4-2 and 35mm lens...the meter hasn't been a serious issue so far and I have to say I LOVE feeling I have a mecanical piece in my hands, no buttons to switch on, ready to fire. Just yesterday it was pouring rain and to be able to take pictures without worry the water could leak into the electric part of the camera is just fantastic... maybe one day I will upgrade to an M6 whenever some bargain will be out there, no rush!

So far I only shot with Ilford HP5....2 weeks ago I start shooting with Kodak TRI-X and I'm looking forward to see the differences....too bad I developed the first roll the other day but somehow nothing came out (it was my 30th birthday's photos, ouch!!) but I flag the problem in the Darkroom section to try to understand what went wrong... so many things to understand and solve   but is all good!

 

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Hallo,

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[Michael Hiles]

As time unfolds, think about printing. As Ansel Adams said - the negative is the score, the print is the performance. A master print, mounted, matted and framed is the final goal.