Ferrania - moving mass production machinery

[Sandokan]

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I found some history.

 

Dispatches from the LRF-The 3M Era. (Yes, "THAT" 3M)

3M bought them out in 1964 and changed the name of the product to ScotchChrome and in 1995 to Imation. They produced a lot of film for the unbranded market.

 

The following article gives a better idea of what they are trying to buy and move and what they started with (the old laboratory apparatus that was a scaled down version of the devices they are now after).

The new Ferrania company started with the old laboratory apparatus that was a scaled down version of the devices they are now after. These devices (such as Big Boy) were designed to produce hundreds of metres of film at a time and as it was 1.38m wide, they also had to cut it down lengthways.

 

I would love to know how these machines are when scaled to the machines Kodak used. One quote has Kodak saying that it was not economically feasible for them to scale back their production.

Dispatches from the LRF-The L.R.F.

 

I am looking forward to see what we get. Will it look like the photos were taken in the '60s?

[CalArts 99]

I plan to try out my Kickstarter reward roll of film with an Italian Leica, the Ferrania Condor.

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[adan]

I've shot a little Ferrania 800 120 film (marketed by Lomography, marked "Made in Italy.")

 

Grainy but good resolution. Nice color, to my taste, that can be moved towards saturated or unsaturated as desired after scanning. I wouldn't consider it substandard to anything else.

 

Sorry it's taken with a certain Swedish camera rather than the German one. I've kept the file small.

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[mfunnell]

I'm glad to find this thread here. While I've been shooting mostly digital lately, and only black and white film, it strkes me that the more people making more types of film (even film I might personally not care for) the better I'll like it. Especially if they can do so economically in smaller-sized runs. Relying on runs of millions of feet of film for it's production to be profitable seems all too chancy these days, and I want people to continue to make (reasonably affordable) film.

 

I've kicked the can for four rolls each of 120 and 35mm. I'll be glad to shoot it, if they get their project funded. But I'll be even more glad that their project is funded and that Ferrinia will gain the ability to manufacture in decent (but not excessive) quantity.

 

...Mike

[250swb]

To be honest I don't think I have used Ferrania film at all in the past 40 years, but the very fact they are trying to make a comeback and run a profitable plant is only good news. Products will evolve, and as a niche supplier they will need to respond to their customers, so I'm in, $40 well spent whether I like the film or not.

 

I don't think any film user should sit on the fence with this one, cough up a bit of money, it's not about like or dislike, good or bad reputation of the past, it's purely about the future of film generally. It needs to be available at all price points for all potential users, so if Ferrania turns out to be 'cheap quality' (which I doubt) it at least props up that end of the market.

 

Steve

[pico]

[...] if Ferrania turns out to be 'cheap quality' (which I doubt) it at least props up that end of the market.

 

It has always been an inexpensive film with an old-time (to me) look. It was rebranded for at least two discount chains, and I'm pretty sure they had a plant in the USA.

.

[chris_livsey]

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72% funded with 25 days to go, average "pledge" $55

A strong message from the film community.

 

From the videos it is certain no one "trashed" anything on close down, what an amazing project.

My only concern is the coating machine is a big one, probably too big for the current market, but if they run one emulsion then process into in every conceivable format they have a chance. I've spent money on dafter things

[plasticman]

Chris - I think everything they intend to save from the old factory is going to be scaled-down to realistic current market levels.

 

One thing I'm really excited about, is that if the Kickstarter succeeds Ferrania will be running one (relatively) large-scale plant and one small-run facility. That really opens up possibilities for very niche film releases on a small scale. I think there'll be something for almost everyone when they get this up and running!

 

Looks like contributions have slowed down now - so everyone should get over and help out! Hope people are not expecting everyone else to keep film alive (and their film cameras usable) - $40 or $70 now could save you losing thousands in the future!

[chris_livsey]

Chris - I think everything they intend to save from the old factory is going to be scaled-down to realistic current market levels.

 

I have seen coating machines, both lab test size and master at Ilford. Scaling down the large coating machine is not mechanically IMHO possible. Of course nothing is impossible if you throw enough money at it. Ilford stated to replace their lab machine, which from memory coats about 15/20cm width, was in the millions.

[plasticman]

I have seen coating machines, both lab test size and master at Ilford. Scaling down the large coating machine is not mechanically IMHO possible. Of course nothing is impossible if you throw enough money at it. Ilford stated to replace their lab machine, which from memory coats about 15/20cm width, was in the millions.

 

Ah ok - In the presentation video they say they can scale down the coating machine. I'm hoping they're right, but I imagine there'll be difficulties - keeping my fingers crossed they can raise enough money to overcome any obstacles!

[chris_livsey]

They may well be correct, it's their machine I am just an outside doubting Thomas but happy to give them some cash to have a go. This cash though is to get the machine not change it, they will be back if this runs.

I do wish them well.

[Sandokan]

Very close to 80% of target with 23 days to go. I have topped up my contribution to help make sure they succeed.

[chris_livsey]

Very close to 80% of target with 23 days to go. I have topped up my contribution to help make sure they succeed.

 

I read elsewhere, and have no persona experience of these kickstarts, that most money comes in the first two or three and last two or three days.

 

Do you think kodak will be next

[Sandokan]

I would love them to release the formulae for some of their slide films - maybe one of the smaller machines could churn out film economically?

[chris_livsey]

maybe one of the smaller machines could churn out film economically?

 

The Lab machines can "churn out film" what they usually lack and of course I haven't seen their machine but have seen the Ilford one in use, is QC. The big machines have many more sensors to detect and mark on the master roll sections that have issues so they can be cut out and not used. They also lack the static reduction steps that are not an issue in testing emulsions but are in production. The formulae are evolving as many chemicals previously used have become unavailable or uneconomic or are banned now in the EU. I understand the dropping of the C41 B/W emulsions recently is linked to the latter problem. Expending time and money to re-formulate and test is a balance against sales.

[pico]

The Lab machines can "churn out film.. .

 

 

Do you know if the lab machine also produced the base for formats other than 35mm? We who work with MF and LF require entirely different bases.

[Sandokan]

For the Lab sized equipment, they say:-

"To begin, we will manufacture 35mm and 120 still formats, as well as Super 8 and 16mm cine formats.These four films are just the start. We are, in fact, designing our new factory to be flexible enough to produce almost any film format ever created. We will be looking to you, the users, to decide what's next."

 

Trixie is the one that produces the base and Big Boy is the one that coats the light sensitive chemicals on the base:-

"We call the old Ferrania coater, “Big Boy,” and he sits in a building the size of an American football field. When Big Boy is powered up, hundreds of feet of film are wasted while getting up to operating speed. He produces a roll of film 1.38 meters wide, of which only the center 1.3 meters are actually used."

 

They go on to mention that they can make any size film.

[chris_livsey]

Do you know if the lab machine also produced the base for formats other than 35mm? We who work with MF and LF require entirely different bases.

 

The lab machine could use any base to coat onto. Ilford do not make the bases themselves. I presume Ferrania want to go that extra step and actually make the base is so they are not dependant on external suppliers and they could sell on the base they make. I have no idea about base manufacture.

[Sandokan]

Chris,

Until I started to read about this, I had always taken for granted that it was a simple process to coat CMY sensitive emulsions onto a long acetate sheet with perforations and just cut it up every 6 feet or so and wind it into a canister. Now I realise some of the complexity.

 

FYI - this campaign seems to have collected about $9'000 since this morning.

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Hallo,

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[chris_livsey]

Ravi, Indeed the Ilford factory tour was an eye opener, the machine that spools and wraps the 120 rolls was amazing. Ilford even make the cassettes starting from the printed sheet metal and rolls of felt light trap. We do take for granted that amazing end product.