Alberti Posted July 31, 2014 Share #41 Posted July 31, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Having read a little bit more about sensor cleaning, I read that wet cleaning (swabs with a drop of isopropyl alcohol) is not possible with some sensors that have a nano coating of tin oxide (if I remember correctly). I also did not get the mail myself: did just the registered M240 owners get one? Combining the outcomes: this may be true for specifically the new production units from the Belgian sensor factory. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted July 31, 2014 Posted July 31, 2014 Hi Alberti, Take a look here Leica recommend non-contact cleaning only by users. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
DigitalHeMan Posted July 31, 2014 Share #42 Posted July 31, 2014 Hi Albert, It is possible to wet clean tin oxide sensors, you just have to make sure you get an appropriate cleaning fluid. I have always used Eclipse E2 for cleaning my Nikon sensors as these are tin oxide coated. I received the mail and don't have a 240. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share #43 Posted July 31, 2014 I believe Eclipse E2, which I also use, has now been replaced by just Eclipse. I have tried to find out what is in it but the best I can do is “contains methanol.” I suspect it is a mixture of methanol and isopropanol. E2 was mainly IPA. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share #44 Posted July 31, 2014 Just a reminder for those travelling. The TSA is likely to remove the 2oz bottle of Eclipse from your hold luggage and destroy it due to its inflammability. It has happened to me. I now travel with my sensor cleaning fluid in a bottle marked Opticron Allergic Eye-Drops but kept in my Billingham. I just have to remember not to put any in my eye Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted July 31, 2014 Share #45 Posted July 31, 2014 Exactly what I do, only I keep it in my toiletries pouch. Aftershave is flammable too btw Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted July 31, 2014 Author Share #46 Posted July 31, 2014 Exactly what I do, only I keep it in my toiletries pouch. Aftershave is flammable too btw ...and overproof duty free vodka as well, in addition to the bottle being a potentially lethal weapon. Strange how that always gets ignored but then you are close to being a criminal, if you have forgotten to take a micro swiss army knife or multi tool out of your hand luggage. Commercial imperatives more important than security is what it sounds like to me. Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted September 16, 2014 Share #47 Posted September 16, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) I would be interested in how dealers are supposed to clean sensors that have welded on dust or oil. Maybe increase of dealer profits? My closest dealer is Tamarkin. Fight to get a parking spot. Commuter train ride to Chicago. Cab ride the store. Then reverse it all. This is not going to happen. Stan purposely located in a hard to get to area. Do you all think the dealers are going to want to take responsibility for damage? What are they going to do when you open the camera at the store when you buy it and find dust? Leica better get the engineering right so the sensors can be cleaned or provide proper tools with the camera. Maybe they can fix the line issue from a dead/stuck pixel while they are at it. Company gets worse and worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
indergaard Posted September 20, 2014 Share #48 Posted September 20, 2014 I've done wet cleaning myself for 7 years without any issues. Not going to stop now. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest jvansmit Posted September 25, 2014 Share #49 Posted September 25, 2014 Unscrambling The Egg: The Leica M9 Monochrom Snip from Q&A with Dan Llewellyn, President of LDP who do camera conversions : PC: What is the most difficult part of the process? DL: Aside from the monochrome conversions, the hardest part is getting the glass that goes in the camera really clean. You can’t use optical wipes, swabs and solutions for the really small particles. Small dust is bound to the glass by electrostatic force. On really small particles, the electrostatic forces are incredibly strong. When you look at the glass under a microscope, the dust looks like the it is held by a magnet. Any time you touch the glass with anything, you leave something behind. To get the glass clean to an atomic level, you need special equipment and things like a clean room. That’s why the guy doing the conversion on the kitchen table cannot possibly do a clean conversion. In addition to that, you need to understand how the glass you put in the camera can change the focal plane of the camera not to mention how to take the camera apart. PC: That brings up a good point. There are a lot of “Dirty Sensor” cleaning kits out there, what’s your advice for people? DL: We tell our customers to never touch the glass unless absolutely necessary. Any time you touch the glass, something will be left behind. Hopefully, it is less than what you removed by touching it, but we have seen customers destroy their ICF/AA (the glass in front of the sensor) by trying to clean every spec of dust that can only be seen by shooting a white field at F22 and inspecting the picture in Photoshop. If the dust isn’t causing a problem for normal pictures, don’t create a problem for yourself by touching the sensor. Aside from ignoring the dust, the first type of cleaning should be using clean, compressed air cans being very careful not to tip the can too much. If you tip the can too far, you can get the can liquid squirting out the tip which will leave a residue that is even harder to get removed. PC: What about other types of cleaning? DL: The clean room swabs are our 2nd choice, but this always leaves little bits of the swab on the sensor. Liquid cleaning is the last option because this has the potential to cause big problems. When you have a solvent on the sensor, that solvent is never 100% pure. That means that when it evaporates, something will be left on the sensor. We have tested lab grade 9.99999% solvents (known as 5 nines), and even that leaves a visible line where it evaporates last. PC: That’s amazing, and scary at the same time. I don’t think I want to open up my camera any more. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted September 25, 2014 Share #50 Posted September 25, 2014 Hmmm...I sometimes use a microscope when cleaning my sensor. I cannot say I can confirm this.... Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted September 25, 2014 Author Share #51 Posted September 25, 2014 So this man is claiming that although liquid cleaners are never pure and leave deposits behind, the butane/propane mix that canned gas cleaners use is pure. I have never used canned “air” to clean sensors but I have used them to clean other things and found a greasy film left behind. Hmmm - the whole article sounds like a sales pitch to me for the services of LDP. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
250swb Posted September 25, 2014 Share #52 Posted September 25, 2014 It's the sort of advice that makes me angry. Take a persons insecurity about doing a (simple) job for the first time and then ramp it up, meaning they beg for somebody else to clean their sensor, a 'professional'. It disenfranchises owners from their cameras and puts them into the hands of snake oil salesmen. Steve 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted September 25, 2014 Share #53 Posted September 25, 2014 My closest dealer is Tamarkin. Fight to get a parking spot. Commuter train ride to Chicago. Cab ride the store. Then reverse it all. This is not going to happen. Sympathies from a former Chicagoan. I wonder if one of the Chicago quick delivery services would be feasible. A six-hour turn-around is easily within their capability. Even USPS can do overnight. Just a thought. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 21, 2014 Share #54 Posted November 21, 2014 I guess we now know why Leica issued the 'advice' regarding non-contact cleaning. we feel the need to clarifying a couple of things about the sensor marks issue you have been experiencing. The issue is linked with corrosion effects on the cover glass of the CCD sensor in Leica M9, M9-P, M Monochrom and M-E cameras. They manifest themselves as marks on images captured at smaller apertures (f/5.6-22). The new Leica M (Type 240) with the CMOS sensor is not affected by this problem. We are truly sorry for the inconvenience encountered and we have set up the following scheme for servicing the sensors of the products affected. Please be aware that a contact-free cleaning of the sensor is essential in preventing the issue. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share #55 Posted November 21, 2014 IMHO, that makes the M digital cameras unusable. Non-contact cleaning just does not work at all. The canned air cleaners just blow the dust around not remove it. If Leica was a US company, the ambulance chasers would be lining up for a class action suit. This is absurd :mad: Wilson 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wattsy Posted November 21, 2014 Share #56 Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) I agree that it doesn't look pretty for Leica. I'm surprised that there hasn't been more comment on the post that I linked to above. I assume Leica will be hoping that as many customers as possible migrate to the M240 CMOS platform as soon as possible as it seems that this sensor isn't prone to the problem. I'm pretty pissed off about it as I've lost the use of my Monochrom for 2-3 months whilst it languishes in Wetzlar and when it comes back, who knows how long it'll be until the problem manifests itself again? I'm glad that I recently divested myself of my other CCD digital M bodies – I imagine that the news that Leica will start charging to fix the problem will not be good for secondhand M9 and Monochrom values. Edited November 21, 2014 by wattsy Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share #57 Posted November 21, 2014 Ian, Leica's postings seem to imply that all interchangeable lens digital cameras, not just the CCD ones are affected by their ruling. If it is just the CCD ones, I am less worried as I don't use my M9 a whole lot now and just keep the M8 for infra-red. I have posted a "Colonel J. Choleric-Angryperson (Tunbridge Wells)" reply to Leica's post. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest digiuser_reloaded Posted November 21, 2014 Share #58 Posted November 21, 2014 (edited) From Leica Website ;-) Edited November 21, 2014 by digiuser_reloaded Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest digiuser_reloaded Posted November 21, 2014 Share #59 Posted November 21, 2014 english version, the FAQ version ist not existing in english 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlaidlaw Posted November 21, 2014 Author Share #60 Posted November 21, 2014 That's not non-contact cleaning. That is an Eye-Lead (or the versions made for various cameras, Pentax, Sony etc) sticky lollipop cleaner. It is good for dust and I usually use it prior to a wet clean, so that I am not dragging sharp dust particles across the sensor with the wet cleaning wand but again, useless for sticky/greasy spots. It just squashes them flat so that they cover a larger area. Wilson Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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