jankap Posted November 24, 2014 Share #101 Posted November 24, 2014 Advertisement (gone after registration) Really? Did you find the (excellent) electronic shutter already? Can you change its preferences? Why cannot one read the preferences, that are written on the card? With a text program. I can manage, but I am not so very convinced of the man machine interface of the GXR. Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 24, 2014 Posted November 24, 2014 Hi jankap, Take a look here why no DSLR that is simple? (No, not a Nikon DF). I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
gyoung Posted November 24, 2014 Share #102 Posted November 24, 2014 As far as the interface was concerned I thought the evf was awful, and since it occupied the one shoe on top I couldn't even put an optical finder on, as I do with the nex 6. The Ricoh sensor too is now very old so spares won't be available for long, and it was expensive. The nex 6 has a curremt sensor, a much better evf and a shoe for a Tewe or Leica multifinder, and it cost me less than half what they were asking for a gxr m. Gerry Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted November 24, 2014 Share #103 Posted November 24, 2014 "Why no DSLR that is simple? (No, not a Nikon etc." This was the subject here. Man machine interface. Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlanG Posted November 24, 2014 Share #104 Posted November 24, 2014 (edited) Maybe no manufacturer can decide on which features can be left out and still produce a camera that will appeal to enough buyers to justify its design, manufacturing and marketing costs. I don't understand why one should expect a modern DSLR to be simple in the first place. But most cameras today can be used in simple or complex modes. So if none of this works for some users, they will probably remain out of luck. Edited November 24, 2014 by AlanG 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
leicaphilia Posted November 24, 2014 Share #105 Posted November 24, 2014 The Ricoh sensor too is now very old so spares won't be available for long, and it was expensive.Gerry IMO, and thats the key...its just my opinion, the user interface of the GXR is pretty simple, especially if you are using aperture priority. The age of the sensor is irrelevant for me; either the sensor is good enough or it isn't. IMO, the sensor is great and produces beautiful files, certainly as good as I need. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jankap Posted January 18, 2015 Share #106 Posted January 18, 2015 The original point was a discussion about man-machine-interface. Simple, self explaining, not overloaded with useless functions, no deep menu structures, etc. The image quality should not play a role here. Leica cameras deliver the best IQ without discussion. POINT:) Jan Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
bocaburger Posted January 19, 2015 Share #107 Posted January 19, 2015 Advertisement (gone after registration) I never understand these questions pertaining to DSLRs (nor did I understand the same questions pertaining to their immediate film predecessors). Setting ISO: on a pro Canon, push a button, turn a dial, read the ISO number in 3rd stops on the LCD or in the finder. On Leica M6, push in the dial, turn the dial, need to remember what the intermediate values are between the marked ones. Not visible in the finder (not on M240 either). Setting manual values: on a pro Canon, set mode dial to M. Shutter speed is one dial, aperture is another. Both can be set in 3rd stops one-handed, no need to take eye from the finder because it's right there in the display. On a Leica, M6 or digital, also one dial for each, but aperture is on the lens, shutter is on the body. Neither on display in the finder so must take eye away to set them or check them, and even then they are not visible in the dark. 1/2 stops only. On digitals can't even count clicks on the shutter wheel because it has no stop. Setting manual exposure: on a pro Canon, graph display in 3rd stops in finder, 3 stops +/- On a Leica, need to remember combos of triangles and central dot (triangles only prior to M6TTL). Indication is 1 stop +/-, after that it's a guess. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nr90 Posted January 23, 2015 Share #108 Posted January 23, 2015 I never understand these questions pertaining to DSLRs (nor did I understand the same questions pertaining to their immediate film predecessors). Setting ISO: on a pro Canon, push a button, turn a dial, read the ISO number in 3rd stops on the LCD or in the finder. On Leica M6, push in the dial, turn the dial, need to remember what the intermediate values are between the marked ones. Not visible in the finder (not on M240 either). Setting manual values: on a pro Canon, set mode dial to M. Shutter speed is one dial, aperture is another. Both can be set in 3rd stops one-handed, no need to take eye from the finder because it's right there in the display. On a Leica, M6 or digital, also one dial for each, but aperture is on the lens, shutter is on the body. Neither on display in the finder so must take eye away to set them or check them, and even then they are not visible in the dark. 1/2 stops only. On digitals can't even count clicks on the shutter wheel because it has no stop. Setting manual exposure: on a pro Canon, graph display in 3rd stops in finder, 3 stops +/- On a Leica, need to remember combos of triangles and central dot (triangles only prior to M6TTL). Indication is 1 stop +/-, after that it's a guess. Although I agree with your general sentiment that DSLRs are not that complicated, I have a few comments. Setting ISO: IMO it would be rather pointless to see the ISO in the viewfinder on the M6. With film you generally expose your whole roll at the same EI. This is generally set when you load the film. All the "normal" ISO values have their number shown (eg 100, 200, 400, 800, 1600, 3200). I would think that someone experienced enough to desire ISO 1000, would be able to remember the intermediate stops. You do not switch in between shots. This makes constantly showing the ISO rather pointless. However, I agree that showing the ISO in the viewfinder could be useful on digital. Setting manual values: you can set a leice lens to any aperture value, not just .5 or whole stops. The clicks are there to help you, but you can deviate from them should you want to. Imo it's rather easy to remember your current shutter speed and aperture. I would never count the clicks on the shutter speed even on camera's with a stop. It would take ages. Setting exposure values: Agreed that an indication of the amount of stops for which exposure is off would be nice. However your comments on "needing to remember combos of triangles and dots" seems silly to me. Right arrow: need more exposure, left arrow: need less exposure. I can't imagine you would honestly find that hard to remember. In general, I concur that DSLR's are not harder to use. However, I disagree with your comments that seem to imply the opposite, leica being harder to use. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pico Posted January 23, 2015 Share #109 Posted January 23, 2015 Thirds of a stop are just fussiness shown because they can be shown. It is highly unlikely any mechanical shutter is that accurate. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jmahto Posted March 24, 2015 Share #110 Posted March 24, 2015 ...However, I agree that showing the ISO in the viewfinder could be useful on digital. ...... I want my view finder uncluttered. Once I have shot whole day with ISO 1600 with my Canon mistaking number 1600 for shutter speed. Too many numbers confuse me... maybe it is just old age. For me M240's implementation is perfect. If I need to know the ISO then I simple press "info" button to check ISO and shutterspeed (in A mode)) on the LCD panel. In my optical view finder I see only one number for shutterspeed (in A mode) and I know exactly what it is. I don't worry about ISO from shot to shot and there is no reason for me to keep seeing it all the time in the view finder. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
tobey bilek Posted May 21, 2015 Share #111 Posted May 21, 2015 I can`t remember the last time I took a camera off M, Leicas or Nikons. That is pretty simple. If you want to click and pray, there is A,S, & P . Metering in the D750, highlight exposure mode, auto D Lighting allow things I never dreamed of before. Leicas still work like 1932 so I rarely need to learn something new. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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