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The Sony A7 thread [Merged]

helicoid leica noctilux f1:1 50mm

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#1 dmclalla

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 13:42

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According to Sonyalpharumors website the NEX-FF photocamera project will come within 2 months.
In light of the quality expressed by the Sony RX1®, is there a possibility that - from a technical perspective - the new NEX-FF will impact on Leica affecting the new M240 in terms of overall image quality and sales (being offered at a more affordable price)?

#2 andybarton

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 13:43

How could anyone possibly tell from a rumour?
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#3 StephenPatterson

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 13:48

Let the games begin!!!
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#4 marknorton

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 13:57

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I would welcome some competition for Leica. Since the Bessas, Zeiss Ikon , Epson film and digital cameras are now largely history, Leica has the market to itself. Never a good idea, it encourages weak colour, Italian flags and loose strap lugs, not to mention glacial delivery.

Whether Sony can deal with Leica M lenses in a full frame camera remains to be seen.
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#5 jaapv

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 14:43

Whether Sony even wishes to deal with Leica wideangle lenses remains to be seen. They prefer to sell their own :rolleyes:
I have no complaint about delivery (five weeks), and others around me are reporting Ms arriving that were ordered sometime this spring. There is quite some movement in the "deliveries" thread too.
It appears we are entering a post-glacial era now ;)

Edited by jaapv, 09 July 2013 - 15:50.

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#6 krooj

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:21

Wheter Sony even wishes to deal with Leica wideangle lenses remains to be seen. They prefer to sell their own :rolleyes:
I have no complaint about delivery (five weeks), and others around me are reporting Ms arriving that were ordered sometime this spring. There is quite some movement in the "deliveries" thread too.
It appears we are entering a post-glacial era now ;)


It's evident, from the lack of bitching and moaning on this forum, that the things are arriving.

#7 mjh

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:39

Sony is in no better position to deal with the inevitable Italian flag issues than Leica is, and they have less incentive to try. Why would Sony care whether you could use third-party lenses?

Also it is still a rumour.
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#8 MirekE

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:44

According to Sonyalpharumors website the NEX-FF photocamera project will come within 2 months.
In light of the quality expressed by the Sony RX1®, is there a possibility that - from a technical perspective - the new NEX-FF will impact on Leica affecting the new M240 in terms of overall image quality and sales (being offered at a more affordable price)?


I ordered the M one day after announcement and still do not see the light at the end of the tunnel. If my M is not delivered before NEX FF becomes available, I will be certainly interested in its performance with Leica lenses.

#9 marknorton

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:51

Sony is in no better position to deal with the inevitable Italian flag issues than Leica is, and they have less incentive to try. Why would Sony care whether you could use third-party lenses?

Also it is still a rumour.


The point I was making Michael is that with some proper competition, Leica might care about releasing a camera with Italian flag issues, especially if a competitor had them sorted.

I agree that Sony is unlikely to offer serious competition for Leica, too much engineering work when the lens business is not theirs and too much of a niche market for a company making thousands of cameras a day, not tens.
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#10 marknorton

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:53

It appears we are entering a post-glacial era now ;)


Yes, it does appear that whatever it was causing them to drag their feet is now fixed so maybe lead times will improve. Either that, or they've sub-contracted the work out to Panasonic.
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#11 StephenPatterson

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:54

Sony is in no better position to deal with the inevitable Italian flag issues than Leica is, and they have less incentive to try. Why would Sony care whether you could use third-party lenses?

Also it is still a rumour.


Very simple, it opens an entirely new market and vastly broadens the potential customer base. If you need further proof you need look no further than Ricoh's GRX A12 module. The Japanese camera companies know who owns Leica glass, and it's a perfect target demographic for them.
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#12 AlanJW

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:55

I would not be so quick to pooh pooh a Sony FF Nex. Even if it had issues with Leica wide angles it could present an interesting choice as a backup to a M9 or M(240). For some people it could be a substitute -- assuming of course that an EVF was acceptable vs. RF. Sony makes some of the best sensors out there, and the RX1 shows it can get down to 35mm. Surely Sony will seek to improve on that.
I for one would consider a FF Sony as a backup and/or for use with longer lenses or in an emergency, wides. I would not consider it a substitute as I prefer the optical rangefinder for focusing. But for a backup, I have not been happy with the less than FF alternatives so I am eager to see whether Sony can pull it off, if for no other reason to see Leica pushed by competition. The technology competition is benefiting us consumers and the more the better.

Edited by WeinschelA, 09 July 2013 - 15:59.

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#13 MirekE

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 15:57

Sony is in no better position to deal with the inevitable Italian flag issues than Leica is, and they have less incentive to try. Why would Sony care whether you could use third-party lenses?

Also it is still a rumour.


This problem is not specific to Leica lenses, they may need to resolve it for their own (and Zeiss) lenses.
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#14 Guest_borge_*

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:06

I think this could be a very good thing, if the rumor is true.
The sensor from the RX1R is superb. You can actually use it to make great B&W images at 25600 ISO without any visible banding. Basically you don't ever have to think about "ISO" again. Just shoot.

Wether they want to correct for M-mount wide-angles or not: I don't care. As long as it performs nicely with 35mm+ M-mount lenses I would purchase it in a heartbeat if it actually performed nicely with M-mount lenses. It would have been a great companion to my MM as a new M240 is just too expensive to purchase and own alongside the MM for the occasional color shot.

Sony could charge what they charge for the RX1R minus the lens and they would make a lot of money on it, and my guess is that it would sell like hot-cakes.

That's all considering if it performs well with M-lenses and if this rumor is true at all.

#15 dwbell

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:20

It's a great time to be a photographer. Technology is storming ahead.

:)
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#16 mjh

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:37

This problem is not specific to Leica lenses, they may need to resolve it for their own (and Zeiss) lenses.

Normally when you design a camera system you would make sure there isn’t an issue in the first place. That is you would design the mount so it could accommodate near telecentric lenses that don’t have this issue. Only the E-mount is too small for that if you have to deal with a 43 mm image circle. Just take a look at the image on the sonyalpharumors.com site: (SR4) UPDATED: FF-NEX coming soon? Stay tuned on SAR!!! | sonyalpharumors. That is not at all what I want to see when looking through the mount of a modern system camera. Either the sensor would need to be smaller (as so far it is in the Nex system) or the throat diameter be bigger.

If I were Sony I wouldn’t build this camera. A new FF system would be a different matter, of course.
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#17 jaapv

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:40

This problem is not specific to Leica lenses, they may need to resolve it for their own (and Zeiss) lenses.

Yes, but their solution wil likely not work for Leica (and Zeiss ZM) lenses; they can design their own lenses to avoid the problem on their own sensor- it is ja matter of choosing specific compromises when designing the whole system.
And, of course, commission Zeiss to make a premium series of NEX lenses.

Edit: As Michael explains, it will be bit of a challenge. They might run into a choice between overall lens quality like vignetting and CA vs telecentricity.

Edited by jaapv, 09 July 2013 - 16:43.

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#18 mjh

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:41

Very simple, it opens an entirely new market and vastly broadens the potential customer base.

Sony has been going through some difficult times recently, but surely they are not that desperate that they saw going after the Leica M market as vastly (!) broadening their customer base. I would think they are after bigger fish.
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#19 StephenPatterson

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:42

That is not at all what I want to see when looking through the mount of a modern system camera. Either the sensor would need to be smaller (as so far it is in the Nex system) or the throat diameter be bigger.

If I were Sony I wouldn’t build this camera. A new FF system would be a different matter, of course.


I think this is nothing more than a bit of photoshop hyperbole on the part of SonyAlpha Rumors. My guess is that the only thing a full frame NEX would have in common with the E mount predecessors would be the name.
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#20 Lightwrangler

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 16:46

It's a great time to be a photographer. Technology is storming ahead.


It's more like a great time for gear-heads. For photographers all this is irrelevant.

Mike
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