X-vario Firmware suggestion for Leica

[Likaleica]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I love my new X Vario. I'm in France for two weeks now and it is my constant companion. EVF allows for more discreet street photography. Only problem I have encountered is accidental camera setting changes when the camera is hanging from my neck, which is often, or when handling. This happens for about 1/4th of my shots. For example, I go to look through EVF and the menu function is showing. My ISO setting changed to 12500 from 400 today. These were from the camera bouncing gently off my chest while walking. Also, the base of my right thumb often has inadvertently turned on the flash or EV function when I pick up the camera. Please consider a firmware update that will require more time than a single press to activate these functions similar to the playback button that requires a firm press of at least a half second.

 

I suppose a half case would help solve the problem.

 

The other thing I've learned to do for street photography is to keep my finger on the shutter button. When I see a potential picture I half press it to wake it up as I'm lifting the camera to my eye. If I wait to look through the viewfinder I often miss the shot.

[wilfredo]

I wonder if others have had your experience? I've been sitting on the fence about the X Vario although I've seen some very convincing photos done with this camera. I'm leaning in the direction of waiting to see if some of the issues with it get resolved by updated firmware. Especially the lag issue.

 

I currently own two Leicas and have owned many others. At this point in my photographic journey I'm not willing to invest $3000. on what appears to be Leica Lag, which for me is the tendency from Leica to lag behind other camera makers by relying on the strength of the Leica name and their superior optics. It's not enough anymore. Leica Lag is running out of steam, and based on the reaction from the public to this camera, it is becoming obvious there needs to be a paradigm shift at Leica.

 

Cheers!

Edited September 23, 2013 by wilfredo

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[wda]

I am impressed with the reported image quality. I also have a satisfactory choice of Leica equipment. I just don't have a convincing requirement at present to buy an X Vario. Desire is another matter.

[Likaleica]

I'm very happy with it despite these little glitches. It is very light and compact, the lens is phenomenal, and the IQ is outrageous. I did my own tests comparing to Nikon and was frankly surprised at the differences. So easy to carry around. I'll post photos after I return from my trip.

[Ecaton]

I wonder if others have had your experience? I've been sitting on the fence about the X Vario although I've seen some very convincing photos done with this camera. I'm leaning in the direction of waiting to see if some of the issues with it get resolved by updated firmware. Especially the lag issue.

 

I currently own two Leicas and have owned many others. At this point in my photographic journey I'm not willing to invest $3000. on what appears to be Leica Lag, which for me is the tendency from Leica to lag behind other camera makers by relying on the strength of the Leica name and their superior optics. It's not enough anymore. Leica Lag is running out of steam, and based on the reaction from the public to this camera, it is becoming obvious there needs to be a paradigm shift at Leica.

 

Cheers!

 

I like your web page. And I see a lot of people shots / candid portraits with shallow dof on it. For this type of work, the XV`s limited zoom speed and range is not the right tool imho.

[barjohn]

I have previously published a long list of improvements needed to make the camera more competitive to a broader market. Despite that list, I haven't found a camera I like better and I have purchased and tried a lot of cameras. The IQ created by the combination of image processing and superior lens is what separates this camera from many others that are very good in their own right. In the end, if I am not happy with the way the image looks, everything else is secondary.

 

Fortunately for Leica, almost all of the issues are fixable in firmware; however, the bad news is that Leica seems to be in dire need for a better firmware development team that can quickly respond to issues, fix and test them and get them out to their customers. Small size is an advantage here, in my experience, and not an excuse. Small highly competent teams produce better software faster. I have seen it time and again over 50 years in the software development business. Big teams get bogged down in management and bureaucracy, tend to have more mediocre developers and produce less in more time.

 

Given the high quality of the Sony FF in the RX-1R and the coming FF ILCs, Leica is going to lose business unless it gets better at competing. Having owned the RX-1, I would have kept it over the XV if it had an equivalent high quality zoom lens.

[wilfredo]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

I like your web page. And I see a lot of people shots / candid portraits with shallow dof on it. For this type of work, the XV`s limited zoom speed and range is not the right tool imho.

 

You may be right about that. The truth of the matter is that my heart is set on the Leica MM. The cost has held me back but I may just go for it!

[Likaleica]

Back from my trip. Motor drive worked much better than I anticipated. Overall, photos were well-exposed and crisply focused. No pp on these other than crop.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[Likaleica]

Great street camera.

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

[barjohn]

Returning to the topic of this thread, I sent the following email to Leica software two days ago and they have responded that it has been forwarded to the right department. I will inform all on their response when I receive one:

 

 

Dear Software Team:

 

The following are my observations of my perceived flaws with the current

version 1.0 firmware:

 

1. Auto Focus is relatively slow, especially compared to Olympus EM-5,

EM-1 and Panasonic GX-7. In bright daylight it can struggle to find

focus and this appears to be caused by the lens stopping down prior to

focusing rather than focusing wide open and then stopping down to shoot.

2. Auto Focus misses focus frequently enough to not be trusted, often

selecting a higher contrast part of the image outside of the focus

rectangle, even when spot focus is selected. Face detect frequently

struggles to find and lock on faces and miss focuses. Every single mode,

1-Point, 11-Point, Spot and Face Detect have focusing errors. Low

contrast subject appear to be especially challenging unless there is a

high contrast vertical line in the focus area.

3. The absence of DOF information makes using zone focusing a challenge.

Further the camera does not display on the LCD or EVF the selected focus

distance. Displaying a combination of focus distance and depth of field

for the selected aperture and focal length would be extremely valuable.

4. Start up time from power on is slow, but even worse is wake-up time

from sleep. It can take much longer than the time it takes to do a 1/2

press and raise the camera to eye level for the camera to wake up and

this results in many missed shots.

5. Auto ISO needs to have faster shutter speed options than 1/30sec. We

should be able to select up to at least 1/250sec. Sometimes we have

moving subjects that we don't want blurred.

6. We need a way to scroll (playback) through images while magnified. It

is very irritating to have to negatively zoom the image in order to

select the next image and then zoom it to try and compare focus.

7. The highest magnification level produces pixilated images that are of

little use to determine focus accuracy. One should be able to go to the

highest magnification and see a clean and sharp image. Other cameras are

capable so there is no reason the X Vario shouldn't be able to do the

same.

8. A faster way to change metering mode would be useful. Presently one

has to go into the menu to change metering mode. Perhaps the down

position on the silver disc could be used to select metering mode and

then the dial under the thumb could select the desired mode or multiple

presses of the down position.

9. Displaying, actual histogram that will appear in the captured image as

opposed to a wide open histogram would be very useful.

10. Adding focus peaking with the ability to select the peaking color

would be very useful as a MF aid.

11. Support for the Olympus VF-4, EVF. The current VF-2 EVF lacks

resolution, contrast and color accuracy, it is only barely usable. It

also can be difficult to switch between the EVF and LCD, sometimes taking

multiple button pushes.

 

While there are other irritations in the way the menu items are selected

and the inconsistency between the Leica M menu and the X Vario menu are

selected, that would be secondary to addressing the issues above. The

largest area of complaint on the Leica forum is the auto focus speed and

accuracy issues. If I could only have those issues addressed I would

find the camera a camera to rave about despite its slow lens and noise at

higher ISOs. The other items mentioned above would go a long way toward

improving the camera and making it a true photographers instrument.

 

Is there any chance that you are working to address any of these issues?

Can we expect a firmware update in the near future that will address

these issues? Could you provide any details on which issues Leica sees

as priorities and when they might be made available?

 

Finally, if you need a beta tester, I am available and would provide

detailed feedback.

 

Thank you, Sincerely,

 

John

[vcs700s]

Good suggestions. On my blogs I have written about many of them.

 

Did you mention the lag time between taking a pic and the fact that it freezes so you can't take another frame?

 

Very irritating.

[Guytou]

Very good initiative John !

 

With the new firmware, Leica must also bring a solution to the unfortunate pressure of palm of the hand on the back silver plated pad.

 

Guy

[barjohn]

I didn't mention either of these issues because on the first one, I have not experienced it so while I have seen other mention it, I hestated to add an item without first hand experience. On the last one, I found that once I added the grip it happens so infrequently that I could not list it as a priority. However, those of you that find it to be a problem should send Leica a request to thier software support email address. (ansgar.wehnge@leica-camera.com)

[papimuzo]

Good move John! If any, please give us the follow-up. Hope they got it because this camera deserves a better firmware, the hardware is already there. Go ahead Leica.

Edited October 9, 2013 by papimuzo

[barjohn]

I sent a question to Leica regarding the AA filter and BIT depth. Below is their response and my original question:

 

Dear Mr. Griffith,

 

The Leica Vario X have a AA filter.

The depth of bit is 14.

 

Please send a mail when you have more question.

 

Mit freundlichen Gruessen / Kind regards

 

i.A. Lothar Luehring

 

Leica Camera AG/Customer Care - Support

Solmser Gewerbepark 8 / D-35606 Solms / Germany

Leica Camera AG / lothar.luehring@leica-camera.com

Telephone +496442-208-555 / Fax: +496442-208-90606

 

 

 

Am 07.10.13 06:39 schrieb "John Griffith" unter <barjohn1@mac.com>:

 

Dear CS:

 

I have a couple of questions about the Leica X Vario. The first of these

is does the X-Vario have an AA filter and if so, is Sean Read correct to

say it is a 1.3 x Nyquist level filter? Several review sites have

speculated that there is no AA filter due to the sharpness obtainable in

converters like DC-RAW. The second question has to do with the file bit

depth. Are the RAW files produced by the camera 12 bit or 14 bits in

depth and what kind of compression is used on these DNG files. It

appears to many of us that they must be 14 bit in order to provide the

amount of latitude visible in post processing but no where have I seen a

published specification.

 

Thank you,

 

John

 

John Griffith

Cell: 951-500-3833

(877) 762-3138 (FAX)

SKYPE Name: johnbgriffith

 

 

 

 

The Leica Camera Blog The Leica Camera

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leica Camera AG / Oskar-Barnack-Strasse 11 / D-35606 Solms

AG mit dem Sitz in Solms / AG Wetzlar HRB 966

Aufsichtsratsvorsitzender: Herr Dr. Andreas Kaufmann

Vorstand: Alfred Schopf (Vorstandsvorsitzender),

Markus Limberger,

Ronald Marcel Peters

 

Note: When looking at DNG EXIF data, it states that the AA filter value = 0.7 and the BITs per pixel = 12. I'm not sure why the discrepancy.

 

 

Here is the EXIF Data:

 

Edited October 10, 2013 by barjohn

[barjohn]

I really like the X Vario and I really hoped Leica would hop on the major issues and offer a firmware fix by now. I am finding that even responses to email questions can take weeks before the company responds and when they respond they are a minimal effort "go away" and don't ask us questions type of response. As a result, I ordered the new Sony A7r last night as soon as it was available for pre-order. With a FF and 36mp and AA less with better AF they will get my money and I will sell my Leica at a loss, but sometimes it is better to cut ones losses than wait and lose more. Leica missed the boat not making this a FF or at the very least fixing the issues that I and other reviewers have raised.

[Ecaton]

I predicted X Varios will be available at USD 1500 soon. Now with the new Sony FF out I`d like to revise that prediction to USD 1200.

[spylaw4]

Slowness in response and secrecy are well-known Leica traits! They are a small company and spending time answering every email in detail takes limited resources away from assigned tasks.

 

It takes many months for Leica to gather feedback from the real world, work on and eventually produce a firmware update. It has taken - what? - 9 months or so after the camera actually started to trickle out to users (as opposed to beta testers) to produce the first M firmware update, so why should it not take at least that length of time to produce one for the X Vario? That would make an XV update due next March or so, although we all hope for one sooner than that.

 

IMO you're being perhaps a little impatient, John, in jumping ship quite this soon, having provided us with some valuable insights into use of this great camera. but of course it's all your choice and decision.

 

BTW I will shortly be sending my thoughts on the camera to Leica with an endorsment of yours.

[barjohn]

Brian,

 

Back when I was younger I ran a small company with tens of thousands of customers, customers that paid no where near what Leica charges for its products and I answered almost every email personally. If I couldn't answer it, I made sure someone in my company answered it. It is part of what small companies can and should do to show their customers they care.

 

I get so tired of the excuse for Leica that they can't do this or that because they are a small company. With 1,000 plus employees, they aren't that small. Sure compared to Sony or Nikon they are small, but they are plenty large enough to accomplish more. In fact, most small companies have the advantage of far less bureaucracy to deal with, quicker decision making ability, more innovative and nimble and thus faster to market with new and innovative products. Unless you have worked in both a small company and a large one, you can't appreciate the difference in having multiple layers of nay sayers all wanting to reduce risk and act as gate keepers. Smart managers in small companies know this and use it to their advantage in the battles against the bigger guys. Leica still operates like the world isn't changing and they really don't need to innovate and offer more and be quicker to respond.

 

If the X Vario had been as bad as the M(240) with all of its problems, many that still haven't been fixed, I would have sent it back in the first 30 days. It is a great little camera with some serious issues that need to be fixed. I suspect that it is such a market failure, thanks to Leica's bungled marketing, that Leica may abandon it and the other X cameras.

 

The clamor on this forum for an X with a fixed 50mm is an example of what leads Leica astray. Build an X with 50mm so they can sell all of 10? Had Leica made the X Vario a FF with an interchangeable lens, using the Olympus EV-4, EVF, and even with a slow zoom kept as close to the size of the current one, they would have had a market winner and the X series would still be in the game. How will the current X2 compete with the Sony A7 for $1,698 versus $2,000. Not very well would be my guess. The pictures I have seen on the web (from JPGs) are stunning. Skin tones look fantastic and they have a lot of pop. When people like Michael R at Luminous Landscape that are old Leica customers start leaving your brand it is time to start looking at what you are doing wrong. Unfortunately, I think the XV will drop in value considerably and I suspect M sales will also decline, so what will Leica sell other than lenses?

 

We can all guess that Leica didn't make the XV they should have because the M department feared it would cannibalize the sales of Ms. I once worked for a company like that called Control Data Corporation. We purposely built inferior mini-computer for fear that if we built ones that were really good it would impact the sales of the super computers we built. Today the company is gone because it didn't want to recognize that the market was changing due to technology and we had the latest and best technology at our disposal.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[renes]

Any news if Leica is going to give firmware upgrade for X-Vario?