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Issues with New X Vario


symmetron

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Purchased an X Vario on 15 July and after two "outings" determined that my camera needs to be sent to Leica to be repaired. I am experiencing erratic AWB and very inconsistent and soft focusing, and/or misfocusing. I own a an X1 so I'm use to poor focusing.

 

About three weeks ago, I took the XV on a trip to the beach. The shots that were dead-on were tremendous, but I got a very large number of misfocused shots. I typically use Autofocus and 1 point focus. I chalked it up to user error, new camera, poor technique, etc. However, some of the shots were no brainers, i.e. dead-on focus (green confirmation), but from one frame to the next, and only seconds apart, some shots were in focus, and other had essentially a focus shift or misfocus (lookat the lapels on the jacket) . Here are a couple of examples. The focus point was the eyes in both photos only seconds apart.

 

Then this week, went on a short family trip and the same thing happened with the focusing described above, AND I now also observed a significant difference in AWB results under the same lighting and within a few seconds of each other for a number of shots. See these four. Obvious WB differences in shot 3 and 4. In shots 5 and 6, shot 5 has nothing on focus )or soft focus) though the eyes were the focus point and I had green confirmation, while on number 6, same focus point and good results.

 

Pretty disappointed. The shots that were dead-on were great. I'm not new to Leica issues, but this is very frustrating. I wish I had just bought a DL6. Never have I had this many missed shots.

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I have also experienced some erratic focusing issues where the camera said it was in focus with the green box but a later review of the image indicated it was not in focus. I haven't seen the white balance issue in normal shooting but I have experienced a very strange WB issue when I was shooting my grey wall. As I changed focal length it was fine until I shot at 70mm and suddenly the image was orange. Looking at the histogram showed three separate peaks one for red, one for green and one for blue spaced about 1/3 distance from each other. This was last night. Tonight I tried again only this time I was closer to the wall and it was more brightly lit as I was closer to the light source. At 70mm I got a normal grey rectangle; however, now at 50mm I got the strange orange display. If I pointed the camera at a different area and 1/2 pressed and then took it back to the original spot I would get closer to a grey rectangle but it would have a distinct orange cast. It is clearly some kind of WB issue that is throwing off the camera's algorithm but I haven't clearly identified the cause. I will conduct some more tests and post my results later.

I have now produced an abnormal shot and a normal so you can see the difference. I find that when it occurs is unpredictable. Note the ISO changed due to the change in focal length changing the aperture. Shutter speed was held constant to 1/30th.

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Edited by barjohn
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I've had similar weird behavior as well. Typically the same thing has happened to me when I have the shutter partially depressed and exposure lucked, and I zoom the lens.

 

In any event, I've never experienced so many missed shots with any autofocus/digital Leica. I'll be contacting Leica today and I'm sure they'll tell me to send it in. If it comes back with the same issues, I'll be selling the camera. Very disappointed.

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Hi,

 

I had a few out of focus pics as well on my XV.

Thought that it was caused by the man behind the camera.:(

Yesterday I took a few pics of my children and indeed I found a few OOF pics that were taken within a few secs after each other.

I was sure to have the green rectangle on the eyes of my child but there was a clear misfocus on at least 10% of the pics.

 

Looking forward to find out if more users have this strange behaviour.

Maybe Solms is already working on a FW upgrade.

 

John

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Tonight when I get home from work I will conduct some additional and better controlled tests so that I can identify the cause of the problem if it isn't a random occurrence. I will test both white balance and focus issues to see if I can cause repeated failures and if so under what circumstances. In my miss focus experiences it seems to me it always involved people rather than static objects so I usually blamed either the person's or my movement as the cause. Other than the OM-D, which rarely ever had a miss-focus, every other contrast detect AF camera I have owned has exhibited some missed focus shots so I wasn't sure if there was a problem. However, I keep seeing others encountering this problem too frequently to just dismiss this a cockpit error. My camera is still within the return period and I will return and exchange if it is a defective camera or just return it if it is a Leica problem as Leica is notoriously slow to address problems in their software & or hardware. $3K is a lot of money to have tied up in a defective camera. As others have said, when it is on, the images are stunning and in looking at tests conducted by others as well as my own observations, this camera holds its own against the FF RX-1.

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And where is the "hurrah a XV" crowd from the other day now?

Still here and very happy with the Leica X Vario, so what are you shooting with,or just hanging out on the X vario forum to come up with some negative comment, you must be bored, not having an X Vario

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So I spoke with Dave Elwell this AM as I live in the Northern VA area. Leica USA wants to take a look at the camera along with some example files. Apparently there may be a limited number of things/adjustments that can be done on the XV here in the USA. Generally, anything significant requires the CAMERA BEING SENT TO SOLMS. Really!

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Guest badbob
So I spoke with Dave Elwell this AM as I live in the Northern VA area. Leica USA wants to take a look at the camera along with some example files. Apparently there may be a limited number of things/adjustments that can be done on the XV here in the USA. Generally, anything significant requires the CAMERA BEING SENT TO SOLMS. Really!

 

Hopefully they will confide to you the cause of the problem, and whether there's a probability it will affect a lot of XV's, or even if a firmware upgrade would help.

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And where is the "hurrah a XV" crowd from the other day now?

 

The number of images where the AF was wrong with the X-Vario doesnt seem any worse than what I had with Nex, m4/3 and other mirrorless cams.

Specially face recognition works fine but you cant be 100% sure.

The point where the x-vario is better than many other mirror less is spot AF, because many other mirrorless do not offer to focus on such a small area.

This would be my recommandation by the way - to not rely too much on face recognition and more in 1 point or spot AF.

AWB...the AWB of my X-ario seems fine, however I allways shoot also raw and in case the AWB is wrong I just fix it in post (as I do with most other cameras) Auto is allways ago-works for many things but you cant rely 100% on it

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The following is my Leica X Vario Test Plan for this evening:

 

LEICA X VARIO TEST PLAN

The Leica X Vario (XV) has seen numerous reports by users to exhibit erratic focusing and white balance behaviors. The purpose of this test plan is to attempt to conduct controlled sets of tests to determine if these observations are caused by human error or by anomalies in the camera’s firmware. Additionally, the tests will attempt to discern whether the anomalies observed are random in nature or repeatable under a given scenario such that they could be easily corrected by a firmware update.

 

Focus tests will be conducted using two types of focus targets. One will be the standard ruler test where a ruler is photographed with a specified point on the ruler as the focus target and the other will be a large photograph of a human face where the eye will be the focus target.

The WB tests will consist of shooting a blank grey wall under two different lighting scenarios, low light and brightly lit conditions. The same test will be repeated using a white target that fills the frame.

 

The camera will be mounted on a tripod so that its position and movement is fixed and cannot be attributed to be the cause of any anomalies that may occur. Only one variable will be altered per test and each test will be repeated 3 times. The variables to be tested are:

 

1. Focal length (28mm, 35mm, 50mm and 70mm)

2. Shutter speed (1/30, 1/125)

3. ISO (100, Auto)

 

The variables to be left constant are:

1. Distance to target of 3’

2. Aperture (A)

 

Testing all combination with no repeats will require 56 individual tests repeated four times, twice for focus and twice for WB for a total of 224 tests. If an anomaly is encountered, the test will be repeated to determine if it is a random event or a repeatable event. Prior to repeating the test, testing would continue for at least two tests where the condition did not arise and then the failed test would be repeated to discern whether it was a random event or a repeatable one.

 

 

Comments or suggestions welcome.

Edited by barjohn
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Looking at the histogram showed three separate peaks one for red, one for green and one for blue spaced about 1/3 distance from each other.

 

Daylight or energy save bulb...? The latter can result in those color peaks. Also energy saver bulbs do flicker and could irritate the camera.

 

I also experience focus issues with my wifes brand new X-Vario.

 

Thanks in advance for testing, and please keep us informed!

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I would like to join the focus and WB issues reports. Usually, my unsharp photos are "operator errors", but there are also a few unsharp photos that surprise me -- luckily these are only very few. Below you will find a recent example, where one photo is unsharp and a very similar one is sharp (there is a slight difference in focal length, position, and distance). I used GraphicConverter to inspect the EXIF data, and interestingly the distance (described as hyperfocal distance) seems to be correct for the fuzzy photo. This might explain why there focus confirmation was green (as far as I remember... But otherwise I would not have taken the shot).

 

Here are the two photos side-by-side with the respective section of the EXIF data:

 

Leica_XV_unscharf.jpg

 

Maybe, this information hints already where to search for the problem...

 

From time to time, I also have shifts in white balance (using auto WB), but I experienced this issue with other cameras, as well. Regrettably, I do not have two similar photos available at the moment that would demonstrate this issue convincingly...

 

Best regards, Gerd

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Purchased an X Vario on 15 July and after two "outings" determined that my camera needs to be sent to Leica to be repaired. I am experiencing erratic AWB and very inconsistent and soft focusing, and/or misfocusing. I own a an X1 so I'm use to poor focusing....

VETTRAN, I only possess an X1 so can only comment on your attribution of poor focusing on that camera. Mine is one of the first released by Leica and I have not been overly concerned by focusing problems. Using the OVF I take care to observe the green glowing LED, even when I am impatient to make the shot. Occasionally errors do occur, but usually due to operator or subject error. (Subject movement).

 

You mention use of 1 Point focus. I also use this setting, not the Spot setting which is too sensitive for my techniques.

 

Regarding your experiences with the XV camera, how accurate are your shots when using manual focusing?

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The XV has been a fine camera so far. If I want critical autofocus, I use the spot function. If I want critical White Balance, I set it manually. It is not a perfect camera, but no Leica I have ever owned has been perfect, even my beloved M5s.

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So I spoke with Dave Elwell and Bill Weier (Customer Service Manager). Leica USA is not yet certified or accredited to perform lens disassembly/work or sensor replacement, but will be in September. Some minor work can be performed. Otherwise it's off to Solms.

 

Neither Dave or Bill have heard of similar issues with the XV, although admitting it's too new still.

 

In any event, I need to ship the camera to them along with some digital files for them to figure out what's going on. I will keep this post updated.

 

BTW, I'm surprised that others are or may be having similar experiences. Unfortunate.

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