jffielde Posted January 24, 2013 Share #1 Posted January 24, 2013 Advertisement (gone after registration) I have a Leica Monochrom that produces horizontal banding in the shadows to the level visible in the attached file when I raise the shadows / exposure by any combination of 3 stops. The banding is easily visible at 1.5 stops of raising exposure / shadow, which I do regularly to preserve highlights. Any idea whether this is normal behavior and, if not, what's wrong? Thanks. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/196777-monochrom-banding-normal/?do=findComment&comment=2223129'>More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 24, 2013 Posted January 24, 2013 Hi jffielde, Take a look here Monochrom Banding Normal?. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
BerndReini Posted January 24, 2013 Share #2 Posted January 24, 2013 What is the ISO you shoot at? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2013 Share #3 Posted January 24, 2013 I can do that. Just take an underexposed image @ ISO 5000 or 10.000 and push exposure three or four stops, meaning you are shooting @ ISO 40.000 or so! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted January 24, 2013 Share #4 Posted January 24, 2013 Look similar to what I get when I use the wrong SD card, at ISO 10,000. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
nicks500 Posted January 24, 2013 Share #5 Posted January 24, 2013 Look similar to what I get when I use the wrong SD card, at ISO 10,000. Wrong SD card? what cards do you use for your MM? I am getting an M and I have been recommended 35mb/s Panasonic's Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jffielde Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share #6 Posted January 24, 2013 All shots are at base ISO (320). For what it's worth, the card is a 32GB Lexar Pro 400x. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jffielde Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share #7 Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) This is at base ISO and the banding is easily visible pushed 1.5 stops. Does that also match your experience? I'm happy to post more samples, but they all look about like this. I'm also happy to email a DNG to anyone interested for analysis. Edited January 24, 2013 by jffielde Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2013 Share #8 Posted January 24, 2013 In that case I would try another SD card. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jffielde Posted January 24, 2013 Author Share #9 Posted January 24, 2013 Jaapv, To be clear, you are now suggesting that this behavior is most certainly not typical, correct? What is the most compatible card I could select? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 24, 2013 Share #10 Posted January 24, 2013 (edited) From what I have read on this forum before, in order to be sure there is nothing wrong with your camera, I would have Leica take a look at it. Memory card wise I would suggest a Panasonic from B&H. Panasonic 16GB SDHC Memory Card Class 10 UHS-I RPSDB16GB1K B&H Edited January 24, 2013 by k-hawinkler 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 24, 2013 Share #11 Posted January 24, 2013 I have not experienced it. Most of my shots have been at base ISO. I do not push my exposures. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jffielde Posted January 25, 2013 Author Share #12 Posted January 25, 2013 In case it would be helpful to others later, Leica recommended that I try an SD card that is 8GB or smaller and 30mb/second or slower for optimal compatibility. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted January 25, 2013 Share #13 Posted January 25, 2013 In case it would be helpful to others later, Leica recommended that I try an SD card that is 8GB or smaller and 30mb/second or slower for optimal compatibility. :eek: Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill W Posted January 25, 2013 Share #14 Posted January 25, 2013 In case it would be helpful to others later, Leica recommended that I try an SD card that is 8GB or smaller and 30mb/second or slower for optimal compatibility. That's what I always use...never had a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tonki-M Posted January 25, 2013 Share #15 Posted January 25, 2013 Just change to a old/slow 8 or 16gb card, or go for the new/fast Pana Gold Pro. guaranteed to work fine. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydarkroom Posted January 25, 2013 Share #16 Posted January 25, 2013 I found this interesting article about the MM DNG and banding: ChromaSoft: The Leica M Monochrom's lack of DNG compression options I've see this happen to my MM when pushing over 3 stops (using a 16GB Sandisk and a 32GB Lexar Pro), Now, how much can this be blamed on the SD card alone? I wonder if a final, non-beta firmware could help fix this, I recall when the Nikon D200 was first released, it had a terrible banding problem that was fixed later on). I'm afraid Leica is probably devoting all time to get the new M finalized and launched rather than fixing some known issues of the MM. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 25, 2013 Share #17 Posted January 25, 2013 Jaapv, To be clear, you are now suggesting that this behavior is most certainly not typical, correct? What is the most compatible card I could select? Well, I only see this when I push the camera to its limits. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjh Posted January 25, 2013 Share #18 Posted January 25, 2013 I found this interesting article about the MM DNG and banding: ChromaSoft: The Leica M Monochrom's lack of DNG compression options I think you are misunderstanding what this article is about. ‘Banding’ can mean different things in different contexts. Within the context of this thread, ‘banding’ refers to a certain kind of non-uniformity in the behaviour of sensor pixels: some rows or columns of sensor pixels may appear brighter or darker than their surroundings. Some small deviations (i.e. noise) are inevitable and increasing the signal gain at higher ISO settings amplifies those deviations, so when you select the highest setting and push the shadows to boot, there might be some banding of this kind (although personally I have seen none). What Sandy writes about in his blog post is quite another kind of banding, namely a phenomenon properly called posterisation. When you have gradient from black to white and gradually reduce the number of tonal values, the formerly smooth gradient will eventually dissolve into visually separate bands. Now since the lossy compression scheme of the M8 and M9 reduces the number of tonal values from 14 to 8, one might fear that posterisation/banding could be an issue. But in practice it isn’t since as Sandy points out, whatever danger of banding might be lurking in the compressed data, the demosaicing step in raw conversion takes care of that. But with the M Monochrom there is no demosaicing step, so applying the same kind of lossy compression wouldn’t be advisable. Consequently, Leica doesn’t even offer this option. But again, this has nothing to do with the kind of banding discussed above. 7 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
swamiji Posted January 25, 2013 Share #19 Posted January 25, 2013 (edited) Wrong SD card? what cards do you use for your MM? I am getting an M and I have been recommended 35mb/s Panasonic's I was using Hoodman RAW Steele and got banding, Now I use Panasonic Gold 8g and the issue is resolved. Edited January 25, 2013 by swamiji 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
mydarkroom Posted January 25, 2013 Share #20 Posted January 25, 2013 I think you are misunderstanding what this article is about. ‘Banding’ can mean different things in different contexts. Within the context of this thread, ‘banding’ refers to a certain kind of non-uniformity in the behaviour of sensor pixels: some rows or columns of sensor pixels may appear brighter or darker than their surroundings. Some small deviations (i.e. noise) are inevitable and increasing the signal gain at higher ISO settings amplifies those deviations, so when you select the highest setting and push the shadows to boot, there might be some banding of this kind (although personally I have seen none). What Sandy writes about in his blog post is quite another kind of banding, namely a phenomenon properly called posterisation. When you have gradient from black to white and gradually reduce the number of tonal values, the formerly smooth gradient will eventually dissolve into visually separate bands. Now since the lossy compression scheme of the M8 and M9 reduces the number of tonal values from 14 to 8, one might fear that posterisation/banding could be an issue. But in practice it isn’t since as Sandy points out, whatever danger of banding might be lurking in the compressed data, the demosaicing step in raw conversion takes care of that. But with the M Monochrom there is no demosaicing step, so applying the same kind of lossy compression wouldn’t be advisable. Consequently, Leica doesn’t even offer this option. But again, this has nothing to do with the kind of banding discussed above. Thank you for clarifying. The banding I see in my MM is the one being discussed here. Only in extreme conditions, however. I had the same problem with the D200 back in the days. If I recall it correctly, I had to send the camera back to Nikon to have it fixed. The problem, however, was visible banding without any image manipulation and at ISO as low as 800, if I'm not mistaken. Raf Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.