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Options for Shift lenses on the M-240 -Merged


MarkP

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Please shoot me down if I'm way off the mark :

 

For architectural work on a 18/24 Mpixel sensor, would cropping a modern super resolution 21mm lens such as the 21/3.4 Super-Elmar or even the 21/4.5 ZM not yield more detail than a 28mm shift lens - whose MTF curves seem to fall off quite significantly at large movements ?

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Please shoot me down if I'm way off the mark :

 

For architectural work on a 18/24 Mpixel sensor, would cropping a modern super resolution 21mm lens such as the 21/3.4 Super-Elmar or even the 21/4.5 ZM not yield more detail than a 28mm shift lens - whose MTF curves seem to fall off quite significantly at large movements ?

 

Probably not. If, for example, you took a Leica, Schneider 28/2.8 PC SA R and used maximum vertical shift (11mm) in landscape format, I think you'd need a roughly 15mm conventional lens to get the same things in the frame at the top of the picture. A lens as wide as 15mm would also start to lose something in terms of MTF curves at the image extremes. Also, the very act of cropping would throw away almost half of your vertical lines resolution before you start. Finally, these lenses are meant to be used on a tripod very well stopped down. My guess is that you'd be beter off with a shift lens.

 

I think a more interesting comparison would be between a shift lens, and an equivalent focal length conventional lens, with the camera tilted, and appropriate perspective correction applied in post-processing.The interpolation required to do the "stretching out" would of course also reduce quality.

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Can you indicate the all in price for this project, please. Thanks. Will this part replace the old Leica PN 14167?

 

Algrove,

 

It is intended to be a copy of a Leica 543195, i.e. a 41mm M to M extension tube, to act as a replacement for a Visoflex II/III. The price F.O.B Venezuela will be $125, plus whatever duties I get charged and postage. I will be selling them on at cost to me, as a service to Visoflex lens users. The finish will be chromed male and female bayonets, a 28/90 male bayonet and coding pits milled in the male one. The tube will have a black carbon fibre finish applied. The whole thing is milled from solid brass.

 

I have just chased Amedeo today for a progress report.

 

Wilson

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Price ;) + the Super-Angulon is Shift only - I'm interested in a true T/S lens. Canon FD mount is another thought.

 

However - I've now just noticed this - which could make me think again!

Hartblei 4/40mm IF TS IF - Super Rotator

 

Chris I have two shifts, a 50mm Mamiya for my ZD med format and a Canon 24mm ts mk2 for my 5. I have never used or needed the tilt on either of these lenses...the Mamiya is shift only and manual aperture. I use the canon mostly at f11 and almost everything is sharp..the Mamiya at f16 to f22 and then everything I want is sharp...personally I think that the tilt will be more useful on the longer lenses like the Canon 45 and 90. I am looking to get a Mamiya to Canon Ef converter for my 50, because its so sharp and has so much movements...also quite cheap, compared to the Canon stuff and all metal build. I do a lot of interiors, architecture and industrial commercial photography. There is nothing like live view and a shift to make life easy...( although the Leica way, imo only of course, is to make life difficult...:) ) Only problem with live view is that the screens are really difficult to see in daylight but indoors and at night it works a charm!..I am looking for a suitable hood for my lcd to overcome this, but no success so far...

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As I have quite an extensive M-lens system and am not into long telephotos, the only two R lenses that really interest me for the M are the PC-Super-Angulon-R 28mm and the Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90mm Asph.

 

Does anyone know if there is information regarding whether the PC-Super-Angulon-R 28mm with adapter will be compatible with the new Leica M, and what is the quality of this lens like?

 

I noticed that no one has mentioned the fact that Photoshop CS6 has some new tilt and shift tools included in it now which are very good. So good in fact that I decided to sell off my too darned heavy T&S lenses...

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I noticed that no one has mentioned the fact that Photoshop CS6 has some new tilt and shift tools included in it now which are very good. So good in fact that I decided to sell off my too darned heavy T&S lenses...

 

I may be wrong but I find that although these tools are OK for minor corrections I'm not thrilled with the results of major adjustments. They also have a significant angular cropping effect which needs to be planned for at the time the photograph is taken or much of the image will be lost.

 

 

ps I've bought a 28 Super-Angulon but I will not spend the money currently being asked for the Vario-Elmarit-R 28-90 for what would have been only occasional use.

Edited by MarkP
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I would go along with Mark. PS tools OK for minor adjustments but not so good for deliberate effects. You also lose pixels. Tilt-Shit blur in CS6 is quite a fun tool to give that miniaturised look to photos.

 

Wilson

Edited by wlaidlaw
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Mark,

 

Here is an example of Tilt Shift (not the other one) Blur on PS CS6.

 

Wilson

Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here…

Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members!

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I believe the TS market is so small that Leica might be considering other lens options such as longer not shorter, TS or not.

 

Look at the current market price for the 28 R TS. About the lowest, other than Japanese built R zooms.

 

wlaidlaw-Love the shot.

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  • 1 month later...

I made some test shots with the PC Micro Nikkor 85/2.8 tilt/shift on NEX7.

 

I show it here, as the effect will be the same with the new M. I was very much surprised, how got the focus peaking works!

 

My new Canon 17mm TS-E lens is waiting for the M (me too!!).

 

 

hand held, radio controlled flash from the right

click for lager image

 

tilt/shift in normal position @ f/4

8540372334_658601cb17_z.jpg

 

tilt to focus plane laying diagonal along the glasses

8540370848_18ae88faf5_z.jpg

 

tilt to focus plane horizontal on the paper

8540373296_f75ef70434_z.jpg

 

dierk

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If anyone would like to see examples of images using the Leica 28/2.8 PC R have a look at the Second Seaside Challenge thread, where there is a shot taken in York Minster. Also under ""Architecture" in the Photo Forum, an old shot of mine of Salisbury Cathedral seems to have had a recent revival. Finally there is a different monochrome image of York Minster in the secod Leica User Forum Blurb charity book in aid of AICR.

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I have been looking at a new Arsat 80mm TS lens. There is a guy advertising new ones on eBay USA for just $367 each. Unfortunately he is not offering the R mount that the factory lists. However he says he can supply it to me in M42 with a convertor to R mount. I have tried explaining to him as the flange focal distance of M42 is 45.46mm and R is 47mm, you would need an adapter of negative thickness to make it work but it does not seem to be registering.

 

Wilson

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  • 3 years later...

Hello.. old dead post, I know..(;~ .  My first post here and I am also  awaiting a Leica 2.8 PC R in the post. I have used for many years a Canon 35mm T/S lens and never once had it on a tripod (in daylight). Never have a problem doing that either.

 

My question is this:

 

If, in order to avoid "Keystoning" the lens should not be perfectly square with the subject, why is a tripod necessary? Just aim up a bit.. level can easily fixed in post processing...even  darkroom. This would of course mean having a suitable shutter speed at F11. So I really am talking about ASA 400 in daylight.. but, what a delight walking about that way, with a hand held PC. It helps if you shoot an old Leicaflex with the external light meter..   that way I don't have to return to center to meter. A hand hell meter woks pretty darn good too! Just my thought and , of course, the question. 

 

Bernhard

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  • 6 months later...

...

The main Hartblei solutions seem to be more related with medium and long focal length lenses, because the 17mm and 24mm are made by Canon. Hartblei makes for them collars that make it very easy to stitch by sliding the camera, and not the lens.

Below you will find pictures of the part that a small workshop made to measure for the 28mm Leica R Shift, following my instructions. With it and that lens it's possible to arrive to 90 degrees in horizontal (equiv to a 18mm), but with many more pixels, because more than one frame is taken.

I had made this part here in Spain (price: 170 euros) because Hartblei told me that they could not do it for less than a ridicolous amount of money...

 

Hi Manolo,

I am currently searching for 28mm PC and I am very interested in your solution for rotating the camera instead of turning the lens. Is there a way to get such a thing?

Thanks.

Mario

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