LEICA M + R Adapter: adequate solution?

[dkCambridgeshire]

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I'd like to see a rangefinder-less, live-view M body ... because the rangefinder is superfluous with long lenses ... and the rangefinder contributes significantly to the cost of the new M body. Without the rangefinder, it would be possible to offer the camera with a beefed-up permanent R mount - solely for use with R lenses.

 

dunk

[frank_dernie]

I am not voting yet. This may be an ideal replacement for my R8/DMR, maybe not, though I will but the camera anyway, and probably the R adaptor if the price isn't too daft.

I have an Olympus Pen-2 with a clip on EVF which closely resembles that on the picture. Does anybody know if they the same or compatible?

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[frank_dernie]

No, it was a grave mistake. Sales were healthy in the US, despite miserable marketing. Leica has always had poor marketing and advertising. There are many, many reasons for purchasing Leica products, reasons which Leica has hardly ever brought to the public's attention. The same was true for Kodak and Kodachrome. Kodak, to the best of my knowledge, never explained in a magazine ad about the difference between Kodachrome and Ektachrome. The ads were all fluff and noise.

 

Leica's ads were poorly thought out, and incredibly stodgy. (Stereotyping is unacceptable on the Forum. I have deleted it. Stuart Nordheimer).

 

 

Leica lost money on every Leica R sold.

They would be mad to have continued the R line, much though I would have liked them to.

[jimbo-drummond]

The problem I see here, with the Leica M with EVF and R-adapter, is not just that it 'rolls off the tongue' so easily, but it misses to point of the Leica reflex system.

 

I am an inexperienced nature photographer but I can already see that this solution would not suit me, even after a lottery-win!

 

The Leica reflex was a very popular camera (and still is) with nature photographers using film, from Fred Hazelhoff to Nonrbert Rosing. It is the build quality and the truly accurate calibration that makes the Leica R SLR so dependable for those once-in-a-life-time shots that every nature photographer is looking for.

 

And then, of course there is those lenses... e.g. the Apo Macro Elmarit R.

 

The reflex camera is probably the only true solution for both macro or telephoto, i.e. Nature Photography. Both are hungry for light. A Leica-R solution really needs to reflect this.

 

Much of this type of photography is tricky due to dim lighting. This makes accurate focussing with high magnification very difficult. Also the best telephoto nature photography is acheived in dawn and dusk.

 

This makes an EVF (electronic view finder) such a poor solution. When using field-craft skills to stalk and track wildlife, the last thing you want is bright screen illuminating your face for all the world to see!

 

Not only that, any astronomer shall tell you that dark-adapting your eyesight is a slow business. It takes about 30 minutes. The dark adaption, is lost however, in bright light in about 30 seconds! This is why any astronomer carrying a bright torch is lynched ( I mean re-educated - rather rapidly, of course!)

 

For a nature photographer, this is a dreadful solution - and rather clumsy looking. Sorry!

 

Unfortunately, the Sudio camera, the Leica S, is no better. It is a medium format-sized camera, and so the high magnifications of macro and telephoto are not available.

 

I dearly love my Leica R8 and R7 and I can see I shall be using them for some years to come.

[Mike G.]

My hope is that Leica has not totally taken off the table an R body that will replace the R9+DMR. The M with an R adapter is a compromise IMO and falls far short of the competition. After ten years of accumulating a costly array of R lenses I feel Leica has abandoned those of us who stood by the brand despite the lack of autofocus.

[rods]

Does the R-adaptor have a stop-down button (like the depth of field preview button on the R body?). This is such an obvious requirement for quick use of the lenses, but I have seen no mention of this at all. If it is necessary to turn the aperture ring to the working aperture after focussing, it is not an adequate solution for me!

[TJB45]

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It's kind of useful to be able to use R lenses on the new M, especially with the EVF, but it is an expensive purchase just to be able to do so and the viewing experience won't equal my R7.

 

It is a pity Leica missed out on producing a FF sensor in a non-rangefinder body, such as an X2 sized body with interchangeable mount.

 

Sony has shown it can be done, albeit with a fixed prime, so come on Leica!

[mjh]

My hope is that Leica has not totally taken off the table an R body that will replace the R9+DMR. The M with an R adapter is a compromise IMO and falls far short of the competition. After ten years of accumulating a costly array of R lenses I feel Leica has abandoned those of us who stood by the brand despite the lack of autofocus.

The R system is dead – life support was discontinued more than three years ago. It is really, actually, irreversibly dead and Leica never promised or suggested they would revive it. There is not going to be another R body ever again.

 

What Leica did promise in 2009 was that there would eventually be an adequate solution for using R lenses to their full potential on a digital body – an EVIL body, not a DSLR. This ‘R solution’ was revealed at photokina and it is the new M (if equipped with an adapter for R lenses). While I have no doubt this solution will prove more than adequate image quality, it may fall short for some uses of the R system, namely those crucially depending on an SLR viewfinder. If that happens to affect you, you will have to look elsewhere for your own adequate solution.

[mjh]

Unfortunately, the Sudio camera, the Leica S, is no better. It is a medium format-sized camera, and so the high magnifications of macro and telephoto are not available.

The S isn’t just a studio camera. And btw, you can use R lenses on the S (see Leibfritz Konstruktion). Norbert Rosing does.

[Stanleytam]

I don't think so. If you have to use stop down metering why not go with a bayonet change and a Nikon D800E? That gives you focus confirmation and 36mp.

 

Yes, That is exactly what I did for my 35mm 50mm and 90mm R lens on the D800E body. It costs only $25 per lens for reversible conversion. I have M9 as well for comparison. My wife and I both prefer the color from M9. Details about the same.

[lars_bergquist]

I never used the R system, so I'm not interested in a specific R solution – except of course for humanitarian reasons … "the greatest happiness to the greatest number".

 

I am very interested in an Olympus OM solution however, because I have a drawer full of very advanced OM macro gear (one of the strong points of that system). And yes, I have a Novoflex adapter for the lenses, and they are simply waiting for a camera body with live view.

 

There is one weakness with the M solution – you either have to focus wide open and then stop down manually, counting clicks, which is very slow, or you have to focus stopped down which is difficult because of the extended field of view. This reminds me forcefully of my photographic youth in the mid-1950's, when there was still no automatic aperturing, but my memories of that hassle are not fond ones. It will all hang on the actual implementation of the solution, which we know very little of yet.

 

There is of course a way out for me. OM lenses have a stop-down button for d.o.f. preview. I could use an adapter modified to not stop the lens down automatically when I mount it. This would effectively change the lenses into aperture preselection lenses, which would be a step forward – to the early 1960's …

 

I take it that the live view function includes an automatic gain control for the finder video signal, so that it will at least not go black when we stop down. We shall see. But until I have seen the M, tried out the M, sniffed the M and p…ed on the M, there will be no order. It is said both that the Devil and God are in the details, which makes them a pretty crowded place.

 

The old man from the Age of the Kine-Exakta

[Robert Kohlman]

I voted "No...." for a myriad of reasons. My reasons have been best conveyed by the individuals expressing their negative voting/ views in this forum, so I will not be redundant. Since 1966, I have used Leica equipment exclusively. I have accumulated a total of 13 Leicas and 20-plus Leitz lenses, all of which are used to this day. I love my M-2 and M-4 and almost all of my R-cameras from my first Leicaflex Standard thru my R-8, all of which get used even to this day. Since I am not a photographer by profession, I have no need to get a camera system with features that are marketed to increase work flow. I am an advanced amateur who enjoys the mechanical/design aesthetics of Leica cameras almost as much as I do the end photographic result. I the end, however, I have opted to use and Olympus E-3 and Canon EOS 5D mark II via adaptors for my "R-solution". The Olympus E-3 has image stabilization in body, thus making it ideal for telephoto and macro shots....the crop factor is nice too. The Canon allows me to use all lenses including my 19mm, 24mm, and 28mm full frame. Both systems have given me excellent results in situations where I have time to focus and compose. For grab shots and action photography, I rely on their proprietary auto-focus zooms, which I have found to yield me very good results. Until my aging eyes can no longer focus, I will continue to use my Leicas, film, and a dedicated slide/negative scanner. I still hold out hope for a more adequate solution from Leica, but at age 65, I am not holding my breath.

[Samuel0902]

I voted for the last one. The EVF is too "un-real" to me and the whole set is just like an EVIL camera system. I hope that the next generation of adaptor is a Visoflex with a real optical finder and with a bigger handle to make the camera more balance when the R zoom lens is mounted. My 2 cents:)

 

Sam

[tdschofield]

None of the above at this stage! More along the lines of:

 

* Yes, indeed an adequate R solution, provided it does all it so far says on the tin

 

I have been an entusiastic M and R user for many years. I have a DMR (with several batteries), and am one of the faithful awaiting the R solution. However, my present circumstances are that of a disability retirement, so maintaining both M & R systems is out of the question, not mentioning my ability to carry it all around anymore. This is an ideal situation for me, as I can use the beloved R lenses that are not duplicated in M such as 15, 28 shift, 60 and 100 macro, 80-200 zoom and 180 Summilux w/1.4x and 2x. It also allows for selling R lenses that are duplicated in my M system such as 19, 35, 50, 80, 135, to help pay for the new camera. (Undecided whether 75 vs. 80 Lux - 75 is RF coupled but has lousey frame lines!)

 

What I am considering is selling the M9, DMR, and duplicating R lenses to fund the M/viso/R adapter and possibly Monochrome.

 

I am considering that the ideal for me now is M/viso/R adapter, Monochrome, 21, 28-50 tri-elmar, 35, 50 Noct, 75 lux, 135 elmar M lenses, and 15, 28 shift, 60, 100, 80-200 and 180/1.4x/2x R lenses, not to mention 35/50/90 uncoated screw for the vintage look. Adding a 19-21 tri-elmar and 400/5.6 Telyt is also a possibility.

 

Carrying a Canon T3i with a 75-300 DO or 70-200 L or 75-300 L lenses for telephoto which I do not do as much of, is also a thought.

 

(Yes, I still have a III, an M7, 2 SL's, and an R8 for film)

 

Comments on this plan are appreciated.

[Son of Helm]

I have ordered one.

The presented solution goes a long way to satisfy my needs, as I have both M and R-lenses for my M9 and R6.2, and I can easily live with the limitations.

I had espected a solution based on cooperation with another vendor, like Sony,

but I dont want to wait another 1-2 years to get a FF mirrorless system with the additional features in-house image stabilization and AF.

I am not concerned that a stopped down R-tele lens should be difficult to focus adequately under changing conditions, as the red contrast indicator in the EVF should let you chose a focus point say 1/3 within the red field anyway. Why should this be any more difficult than trying to focus with microprisms in the center, and reframing?

Edited October 5, 2012 by Son of Helm

[Badger O Stripey One]

Far, far too expensive

[stuny]

Once again I'm amused to read of people damning a product without benefit of trying it. Another form of prejudice?

[jacobh]

Voted great solution but inclined to wait...for Leica to address EVF refresh rate concerns.

 

.

 

What is the present refresh rate in the EVF ?

 

Jacobh

[wlaidlaw]

I am even buying R lenses in anticipation of being able to semi-retire my less than stellar Visoflex long lenses. If I can persuade some company to make an M to M 41mm extension tube, I shall carry on using my Telyt V280/f4.8 Series 3 lens.

 

For the R to M solution I favour the Leitax adapters, which fix with multiple screws to the R lens. The whole then forms a rigid assembly. The only downside compared with the new R to M adapter, is the absence of a tripod mount but with the new more rigid tripod mount on the M body and the very rigid Leitax/R lens assembly, this may be of less importance. In the real world when taking actual images with long lenses, I tend to use a sand bag rather than a tripod anyway.

 

Wilson

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Hallo,

Look here: Interesting Leica gear

[mmradman]

I am even buying R lenses in anticipation of being able to semi-retire my less than stellar Visoflex long lenses. If I can persuade some company to make an M to M 41mm extension tube, I shall carry on using my Telyt V280/f4.8 Series 3 lens.

 

For the R to M solution I favour the Leitax adapters, which fix with multiple screws to the R lens. The whole then forms a rigid assembly. The only downside compared with the new R to M adapter, is the absence of a tripod mount but with the new more rigid tripod mount on the M body and the very rigid Leitax/R lens assembly, this may be of less importance. In the real world when taking actual images with long lenses, I tend to use a sand bag rather than a tripod anyway.

 

Wilson

 

Nice to see David Llado is ahead of the game http://www.leitax.com/LeicaR-lens-for-Mirrorless-cameras.html

 

Perhaps he is the right person to be asked to fabricate M-M to 41mm long tube and perhaps add tripod foot with Arca-Swiss style dovetail to his R-M adapter.