Jump to content

The Leica Forum uses cookies. Read the privacy statement for more info. To remove this message, please click the button to the right:    OK, understood.

Photo
- - - - -

Cracked Sensor


  • Please log in to reply
45 replies to this topic

#1 jim sink

jim sink

    Benutzer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts
  • City / Ort:Raleigh N C USA

Posted 17 February 2012 - 21:35

Advertisement (Gone after free registration)
I was testing a new Summicron lens today and noticed that awful mark on all my images , top left corner. Looked and there it was, a crack in the sensor. My serial number is # 03974787. Does anyone know if this is from the batch that I read about some time ago.
Thanking you in advance.:confused:

#2 andybarton

andybarton

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 26,656 posts
  • Location----- Airstrip 1 ----- 53°17'46'N, 03°05'02'W

Posted 17 February 2012 - 21:36

Have you looked at the cracked sensor only thread?

http://www.l-camera-...mbers-only.html
  • jim sink likes this

Andy

 

 

Any comment here is just my opinion. Yours may differ.

Posts made with my Moderator hat on are in Bold Dark Red



Website: 18th January 2015
Blog: "Still My Turn This Year?": 4th May 2015


Leica User Book 2014


#3 hydeca

hydeca

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 184 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 14:01

Serial prefixes to date (including OP):

3484
3804
3804
3804
3809
3809
3809
3809
3809
3809
3809
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3810
3811
3811
3811
3811
3834
3834
3834
3834
3834
3835
3835
3835
3835
3835
3835
3836
3836
3837
3837
3838
3907
3971
3974
3975
3979
4076
4112
4201
4207

Edited by hydeca, 19 February 2012 - 14:05.

  • 250swb and jim sink said thank you to this

#4 hydeca

hydeca

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 184 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 14:49

There are three groups of consecutive prefixes:

1) 3809, 3810, 3811 (25)
2) 3834, 3835, 3836, 3837, 3838 (16)
3) 3974, 3975 (2)

3810 has the most posts (14).

Prefixes for the remaining posts are non-sequential.
  • rosuna and jim sink said thank you to this

#5 Lacapino

Lacapino

    Neuer Benutzer

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 19:05

Hi To All

What does Lieca say about this. Surely this is not acceptable?
The more I read abt the m9, and even the P, the more I doubt if this is the right camera for me. Card read issues, cracked sensors, front, and back focus shift issues , Slow turn around time for service, short supply of new lenses ...
And not excactly a 'cheap' product either, though I m not after a cheap product. I m after the best, and will (am) prepared to pay for it, BUT ...
Its suppose to be a M? Reknown for its durability, and reliabiltiy!

I m gonna cancel my Camera, think I m gonna stick with the Nikons
Pity. Love my M6, and M2
Or once agn, is my thoughts premature???

working currently out of Iraq with two Nikons and a Fuji X
In 6 yrs none of my Nikons have failed, under all conditions

COme on LEICA!

Lacapino

stuartweber.co.za
  • jim sink likes this

#6 jim sink

jim sink

    Benutzer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 98 posts
  • City / Ort:Raleigh N C USA

Posted 19 February 2012 - 19:12

Have you looked at the cracked sensor only thread?

http://www.l-camera-...mbers-only.html


Does anyone know if Leica is replacing the defective cracked sensors with the same type they've been using all along. Now I'm not sure if I will have total confidence in my M9 if they're using the same kind. And what in the world is causing these things to crack. I've never had a Canon or Nikon sensor crack.:mad:

#7 Bill W

Bill W

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Premium Member
  • 3,021 posts
  • LocationCentral Texas

Posted 19 February 2012 - 19:37

Does anyone know if Leica is replacing the defective cracked sensors with the same type they've been using all along. Now I'm not sure if I will have total confidence in my M9 if they're using the same kind. And what in the world is causing these things to crack. I've never had a Canon or Nikon sensor crack.:mad:

To my knowledge there is only one source for the sensor and that is ISS Image Sensor Solutions which was part of Kodak till it was sold to Platinum Equity. I really doubt they would change horses at this point. I have never heard if the cracking issue was a Leica issue when installed or a manufacturing issue. Keep in mind there are a whole lot of folks me included that have never had issues with their M8's 8.2's or 9's.
  • jim sink and Lacapino said thank you to this

#8 Lacapino

Lacapino

    Neuer Benutzer

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 24 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 20:54

Hi,
Thanx for yr feedback. I assume (share your thoughts) regarding ' they wont change horses now, not at this point in time'

I m currently in Kirkuk(N -Iraq) wiht my two Nikons, and a FujiX
I have ordred a M9P last year, and it is at my Dealer in SA(South Africa) waitng for me. I was really looking forward to getting it , but after joining the Forum, trying to read as much as possible abt the M9 P and M9, I v come across some concerning emails regarding sensors, and Card reading/recording issues ... in fact a number of concerns, but these two are the most troubling at the moment(for me)

This Forum is great, and very helpfull.
However I wondered if there was any feedback form a Leica representative/official, on any of these sensor issues?
And is there a way of finding out what are they doing abt it? One would think it is Important to them, and they possible are , or may even have adressed this, but I see in the mails (on here)some cameras have gone backwards and forward to Solms three timeswith the same trouble/issues (with numerous clients/customers!!)
Is there any reason to have any faith in them, and still go ahead and spend all that money on a Digital Leica at this time.

I m certainly gonna kick myslef if I sell my Nikons and then find myself in Iraq and then have a cracked sensor on my supposed Legendary M 9P!

I am deployed for 3-4 months at a time sometimes. My cameras must work, likewise I cannot wait for weeks on end for it to get back to me, ANd there`s anyhow no way of doing it from here(Iraq), or from most remote areas, where I frequantely work.

Guess I ll have to let go of that Fairy Tale of thinking a Digital Leica was still as reliable as my M2 or M6?

I dnt think many serious pros are using digital Leicas in really tough conditions, I may be wrong, but I dnt knw of many

Best Regards

#9 Luuk

Luuk

    Benutzer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 77 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 22:17

Hard to believe that there are buying and using this camera? Its simular to the Roman Catholic Church still has followers.

Luuk

#10 vanhulsenbeek

vanhulsenbeek

    Sponsoring Member

  • Premium Member
  • 1,946 posts
  • City / Ort:Amsterdam, Netherlands

Posted 19 February 2012 - 22:48

A year ago a number of 20.000 M9's shipped was considered a good guess on this forum. Give it some 10.000 more ( also a guess here at 50 a day for 200 working days) and you have an extremely rough ballpark figures of 30.000 cameras shipped. It could be anything in between 20 and 40K now.

Considered the number of cracked sensors reported here, estimate how many users would report here - it is a digital camera and one would suspect most users to be internet-savvy - and draw your conclusions for the total number. I will not do that.

As far as I understand reports here, Leica is replacing cracked sensors at premium speed and without question, also after warranty has lapsed. Which is consistent with Leica's public reactions after the first sensors cracked and also with the "fit for purpose for a reasonable timeperiod" principle, existing in most national consumer product law.

Mine - which statistically is insignificant - is 2.5 years old, has been all over the world and works fine.

Edited by vanhulsenbeek, 19 February 2012 - 22:50.

  • Lacapino likes this
Sander
Amsterdam
Holland

www.vanhulsenbeek.com
sanderva.zenfolio.com

#11 CalArts 99

CalArts 99

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 1,343 posts

Posted 19 February 2012 - 23:54

This is somewhat similar to posts in Porsche, BMW, and Mercedes Benz forums. A lot of posting of complaints and issues. But that is what the forums are for, to express frustrations and ask what to do about it. But the products themselves are still excellent products and still sell very well. People keep buying them and the majority are very happy.

With any mechanical and electronic product, something can always fail. Sometimes it's simply luck of the draw. Other times it's a manufacturer's defect. Either way they will be corrected by the manufacturer. But yes, it's a pain and a time waster to have it corrected, I agree. And it's no fun thinking in your mind that something might fail.

And if you truly depend on your car or your camera, then you are always taking a certain amount of risk either way. A Nikon can fail and so can a Toyota just as easily as a BMW or a Leica. But if you are into only the odds of events happening, then make a decision based on the data that you can calculate: actual Nikon failures versus Leica failures per unit. But just like driving a Mercedes versus a Toyota, you end up making compromises based on performance versus perceived (or sometimes real) reliability. Some people buy cars based solely on the statistics of reliability and nothing else. They see cars as basic appliances of transportation and nothing else. Cameras can be seen the same way, I suppose.

But there will never be any guarantees in life, and therefore it's only your choice in the end. And that is often decided primarily from one's instinct. And since you clearly have your doubts about the M9 versus a Nikon, your instinct appears to be pretty clear with this decision. And what we say about our own personal experiences probably won't really mean a lot to you.

#12 Bill W

Bill W

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Premium Member
  • 3,021 posts
  • LocationCentral Texas

Posted 20 February 2012 - 00:41

To my knowledge there is only one source for the sensor and that is ISS Image Sensor Solutions which was part of Kodak till it was sold to Platinum Equity. I really doubt they would change horses at this point. I have never heard if the cracking issue was a Leica issue when installed or a manufacturing issue. Keep in mind there are a whole lot of folks me included that have never had issues with their M8's 8.2's or 9's.

The company (Platinum Equity) that bought Kodak's sensor business named it Truesense Imaging, Inc. They as a part of Kodak have manufactured a lot of sensors for many companies over the past 30+ years. I see Leica having a ready supply of sensors.

#13 rramesh

rramesh

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 1,242 posts
  • City / Ort:Singapore

Posted 20 February 2012 - 02:40

In all my years using digital cameras, I never heard of sensors cracking spontaneously until I joined this Leica forum. Is this unique to Leica? Usually sensors crack when camera is dropped, mishandled or sensor poked in the eye with a cotton swap.
Pixels dancing to the rhythm of the moment.
Ramchand Ramesh
http://ramchandramesh.com


#14 pluton

pluton

    Benutzer

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 32 posts

Posted 20 February 2012 - 07:31

Two points: 1. The filter glass--so the story goes-- on the M9 sensor is necessarily thinner than those used on Nikon,Canon, etc DSLR cameras because of certain optical issues for which 'thinner' was the solution. 2. Leica(and their vendors) are pioneers in the world of digital imaging in a FF rangefinder camera. They're still learning.
Personally, I'd be reluctant taking just two Nikon DSLRs for an extended stay in a remote place...unless I felt it'd be easy to order and receive a replacement if needed.

#15 250swb

250swb

    Sponsoring Member

  • Premium Member
  • 6,308 posts
  • LocationPeak District, United Kingdom
  • City / Ort:The Peak District, Derbyshire

Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:07

I think I were going to Iraq I'd do what a lot of modern photojournalists do, take a camera bag full of 'bridge' camera's and use them till they fail, then start again with another. Much less visible than a great big DSLR and with the added video facility that pj's need nowadays.

As regards Leica being crappy and failure prone, I'd suggest anybody look more closely at Nikon or Canon Forums. The difference is that perhaps Nikon can trace any fault much quicker and deal with it because of the numbers of camera they are selling, it is easier to find the common denominator that causes the fault. As Leica have never said what causes the cracked sensor it is still open to conjecture that it is just a heavy handed employee at either Leica or the sensor factory, not a fundamental fault of the design.

Yet again we have a thread devoid of perspective and full of panic, the last thing you want in a 'war zone' between innuendo and truth.

Steve

#16 el.nino

el.nino

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 956 posts

Posted 20 February 2012 - 09:36

As far as I remember the cracked sensor issue wasn't caused by a faulty sensor.
It was caused by using too much force in the sensor assembly.

#17 jaapv

jaapv

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 38,656 posts
  • LocationBehind a Red Dot

Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:39

Then true cause was never revealed. The most likely explanation is a flawed sensor-filter bonding combined with thermic cycling.

Edited by jaapv, 20 February 2012 - 12:09.

  • vanhulsenbeek likes this
Jaap

WWW.JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY.EU

Posts in blue bold font are made as a moderator

Leica user since 1976

#18 hydeca

hydeca

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 184 posts

Posted 20 February 2012 - 10:41

It was not until late 3809, 3810, early 3811, late 3834, 3835, 3836, 3837 and early 3838 bodies that failure rates spiked.

Before and after those serial ranges failures are isolated one-offs. It is reasonable to speculate there is an underlying vulnerability that is influenced by variability in the manufacturing process.

Edited by hydeca, 20 February 2012 - 10:44.


#19 jaapv

jaapv

    Moderator

  • Moderators
  • 38,656 posts
  • LocationBehind a Red Dot

Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:10

I guess it only goes to prove that the design is on the limit of the current technological restraints.:o
Jaap

WWW.JAAPVPHOTOGRAPHY.EU

Posts in blue bold font are made as a moderator

Leica user since 1976

#20 UliWer

UliWer

    Erfahrener Benutzer

  • Members
  • 7,503 posts

Posted 20 February 2012 - 12:34

It was not until late 3809, 3810, early 3811, late 3834, 3835, 3836, 3837 and early 3838 bodies that failure rates spiked.

Before and after those serial ranges failures are isolated one-offs. It is reasonable to speculate there is an underlying vulnerability that is influenced by variability in the manufacturing process.


Well, first of all, I'd suggest that there might be very different reasons which cause a sensor glass cracking, as everybody of us has seen other glasses cracking out of very different reasons.

There has been a serial of those crackings which led to the assumption of a material or production fault, which Leica has ackknowledged. Therefore they change the sensor even if the camera is out of warranty. Nonetheless - for the isolated one-off cases - we cannot completerly rule out very different reasons for the crackings. As Leica can't prove those different reasons, it's fair enough they treat the cases as if they all were caused by a production/material fault.
  • vanhulsenbeek likes this




0 user(s) are reading this topic