The 90 summicron-m pre asph...why no love?

[jneilt]

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Just curious on this...I read tons of posts saying Elmarit-m, or Summicron APO/ASPH...

 

1) don't really need f/2

2) smaller/lighter

3) sharper

 

Within these posts there are citations of the coma at f2 on the apo/asph, the weight is a measly 90 grams more/ 3.2 ounces, the length is 3/8" longer.

 

With the rage in prices over the Elmarit-m, does this make a reasonably priced 90 cron a steal. 3.2 ounces is not going to break my arm and 3/8 an inch is hardly a huge 90mm...I am thinking for 5-6 hundred less than the elmarit prices I am seeing and 2,500 less than the apo/asph I can deal with it.

[Rafael08]

The E55 pre-asph summicron is a terrific Mandler design. It is unquestionably my favourite 90mm lens for portraiture. I find that its signature is remarkably similar to that of the 75mm summilux, my all-time favourite lens. Prices for the E55 summicrons have virtually doubled over the past year or so, but I suppose that increase is in-line with the general and dramatic increase in used Leica lens prices. You're right, this lens does not seem to garner as much attention as the Elmarit-M. But it is definitely a top performer, especially if you are drawn to the signature of Mandler lenses.

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[lct]

I like much the pre-apo Summicron R and expected similar results with its M (E55) version but the latter has much more CA (purple fringing) which can be a problem in color. Also it is difficult to focus at full aperture on crop cameras but it is a well known issue with 90/2 and 75/1.4 lenses. Flares less than its R counterpart though.

[haroldp]

The E55 pre-asph summicron is a terrific Mandler design. It is unquestionably my favourite 90mm lens for portraiture. I find that its signature is remarkably similar to that of the 75mm summilux, my all-time favourite lens. Prices for the E55 summicrons have virtually doubled over the past year or so, but I suppose that increase is in-line with the general and dramatic increase in used Leica lens prices. You're right, this lens does not seem to garner as much attention as the Elmarit-M. But it is definitely a top performer, especially if you are drawn to the signature of Mandler lenses.

 

I agree with everything marc said. The 90 cron pre-asph is a phenomenal lens. It is outstanding at F2. If you do not mind the size, it is almost flawless.

 

I do however carry the elmarit m when traveling, because of size / weight. I bought mine 3 years ago and paid an embarassingly low price.

 

Good luck ... H

[jneilt]

I've a line on one at a pretty decent price...and I get to try before I buy, so that is even better. I have the day off tomorrow and will play with it a bit.

 

I have a couple of the new asph lenses and a 50 cron. I appreciate the sharpness of the newer lenses, but the 'signature' of the non-asph stuff just has something unique/special to it.

[peter_n]

I agree with everything marc said. The 90 cron pre-asph is a phenomenal lens.

+1. It's a wonderful lens. I was using a Summicron 90 ASPH when I bought the pre-ASPH E55 and loved the lens so much I sold the ASPH. As Marc says if you like the Mandler look this is just a perfect 90. Here's a couple of street shots from mine that I posted in the film forum earlier today.

[tgray]

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I was looking for one for awhile but the prices started kind of getting ridiculous on them. So I went with a 75 Summilux that I found for not too much more.

 

It looks like a great lens. I love the pictures I see from it, though in the long run, I think the 75 Summilux was the right choice for me.

[Mr. Thompson]

Have to agree, this is my second favorite lens & it's a sweetie.

[adan]

Lenses tend to have recurring moments in the spotlight and moments in the shade. The non-APO 90 Summicron is probably due for revived attention. IMHO it is more deserving of the title "King of Bokeh" than its 35mm sibling.

 

cf. peter_n's link above. A very "liquid" rendering of backgrounds and the transition areas from sharp to blurred.

 

My own mini-review: http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/483051-post4.html

 

I have a need for f/1.4 and .75m focusing, so I now use the 75 Summilux. But the 90 'cron definitely shares the "look," if one doesn't need those extras.

 

BTW, if you like the rendering of the compact 90 Summicron pre-APO, the 135 f/2.8 (M or R) and 180 f/2.8 non-APO ® are also cut from the same cloth.

[budrichard]

I purchased the Canadian version with sliding shade in chrome many many years ago to match my M3. I still have that lens but when I upgraded to ASPH, lenses i purchased the current configuration. With K64 under 5X magnification at f2.0, I could perceive no difference between the lenses. The chrome version is absolutely gorgeous but much heavier the the latest ASPH I have.

I would purchase a good used example in black (lighter) in a heartbeat.-Dick

[bocaburger]

I sold my 90 Elmarit-M on a pre-ASPH Summicron a few years ago. From f/2.8 I can't see any difference. Although it is said the Elmarit-M is better at the wider apertures in the close range, I haven't noticed it. The reason I switched is given the equal performance plus the extra f/2 stop for portraiture, the Summicron-M isn't that much heavier or larger. For a travel 90 I use the skinny Tele-Elmarit. Now that's smaller and lighter!

[algrove]

MUSINGS ON LIFE IN THE M LANE--

 

This thread is curious to me since I bought this lens about 15 months ago and have used it extensively and just love my results. It was my first 90 M lens shortly after buying my first (in 45 years on and off in photography) Leica M camera, the M9.

 

I have also bought the new APO 90 ASPH and also love it as it seems to be tack sharp to me, even before I bought the Walter eye piece which really helps my old eye (I only have one eye that works right now, but thank God it's the right eye) focus my old f1 Noctilux.

 

Since you guys have been driving me crazy after reading various lens threads (yes I have GAS), I have acquired a Tele-Elmarit 90 226g and also the Elmarit-M for long distance/long duration travel. Having said that I lugged my APO 90 and my Macro 90 all over Europe this Summer and was glad I had both with me. At first, I wanted to just take the 90 Macro, but at the last minute decided to take the APO 90. Glad I did.

 

My first shots with the Tele-Elmarit were disappointing (without hood-yes I know stupid of me) due to flare I had not imagined from the position I was shooting. After almost selling it, I have decided (Remember, never sell Leica glass) to keep it and now I will use the hood from my Macro 90 on it and bought a second Tele-Elmarit 90 to send in to Leica for 6 bit coding and a look over just in case the first one's glass is kaput as many suggest often happens to these older lenses.

 

Then (yes I am really full of GAS) I decided to get another Elmarit-M 90, this one made in Germany instead of Canada like the first one in order to really know if there is a difference between the two variations. Have not had time yet to accomplish this due to travels. I'd rather have fun with them than look at them.

 

Frankly, I hate all these comparisons like Sean Reid does only because after about the first few frames, first at wide open, then by about f4 or so I give up and scroll down to the next section. OK, I am sure I should pay more attention to these tests, which I can imagine take hours of boring photography.

 

At least these days, I do not have to smell potent and strange vapors when in the digital darkroom. I love that term, but have yet to get my arms around a satisfying workflow, but it's coming along. You guys are so far ahead of me, I'll kick off before I catch up. It seems strange not having to constantly look at the old clock in front of me, but instead just a big ole color adjusted/calibrated 30" monitor with LR and PS running my life. At least I get the occasional smell of nice perfume (instead of chemicals) when my wife comes in to say dinner is ready and I reply, "Is it that late already?" Heck, I've got 40k of images and haven't even fired up my 3880 yet. Watch out Epson because when I get going you had better have plenty of ink cartridges available! I have reserved about 40 feet of wall space (some of it 4 meters high) for those prints I keep promising my wife will be forthcoming.

 

So one day I have in my head to go out with all seven 90's (oh my God, glad my wife does not read this stuff!), If my back and/or camera bag can support them and try shooting them all at the same image in order to hopefully see real differences in how they draw. I suppose doing this at different times of the day would also be a benefit, but is all I want is a real life test for my own knowledge. I can now imagine this test could also be boring. The most fun would be finding a suitable image. Then again maybe I don't want to know in case the older, less expensive ones out shine the newer more expensive ones, in my eye(s). Being an old fart, I do like scenes that remind me of film years ago between the 60's and 70's. So maybe that answers my question. Sepia still interests me.

 

So, has anyone ever done this type of personal test in order to really know how these very different 90 lenses draw instead of imagining or reading (like me) how others say they draw? Or have many of you just used your lenses so long that you know before hand how your lenses will draw a certain scene?

 

Does wanting to have this knowledge sound ridiculous? Or is it just a waste of time when I could be out shooting?

[wda]

+1. It's a wonderful lens. I was using a Summicron 90 ASPH when I bought the pre-ASPH E55 and loved the lens so much I sold the ASPH. As Marc says if you like the Mandler look this is just a perfect 90. Here's a couple of street shots from mine that I posted in the film forum earlier today.

 

You link to two stunning shots which would do any current lens proud!

[jeverettfine]

I like the pre-90 Summicron just fine. My main complaint is the filter size. I do like being able to use 39 filters on everything. I find myself using my old 90 collapsable Elmar as often as not. You're unlikely to go wrong having a 35/50/90 Summicron set of most any vintage.

[lct]

I like the pre-90 Summicron just fine. My main complaint is the filter size. I do like being able to use 39 filters on everything. I find myself using my old 90 collapsable Elmar as often as not...

So did i before i bought the Macro-Elmar 90/4. My favorite slow 90 ever. I'm not that fan of the pre-apo Summicron M though. Your post and those above could make me want to wipe the dust off it eventually.

[3rdtrick]

I am happy with mine...

 

I also have the Macro-Elmar and I carry that most of the time but I did not want to give up my Summicron for times when I need faster.

[TerenceYam]

I was benefited by this post and decided to buy a 90mm Summicron pre-asph myself.

 

Although this lens is a bit heavy when compared to other Leica lens, but it balance well off on my M9. (unlike the 21mm 1.4 which I borrow from my friend for test earlier....that lens is far too heavy)

 

I took some shots with 90mm summicron pre-asph and would like to contribute some sample photos back here, so that people who are interested in this great and relatively cheaper lens in the future can take them as reference.

 

I love the bokeh of this lens.

 

 

 

For more samples, please feel free to take a look here:

Test shots by 90mm summicron pre-asph - a set on Flickr

[CheshireCat]

Bumping thread with a 100% crop on A7R2 (42 MP) wide open.

 

 

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[CheshireCat]

... and after Photoshop's Smart Sharpening:

 

 

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Edited February 21, 2016 by CheshireCat

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Hallo,

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[ferdhart]

I prefer The 80mm Summilux R for my Sony A7S.  It is a gem!