jaapv Posted November 26, 2011 Share #41 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Advertisement (gone after registration) (to the subject this forum has gone over at nausea). K-H. Ah- that explains Luddites throwing up verbally on Rick's afflatus. Edited November 26, 2011 by jaapv Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted November 26, 2011 Posted November 26, 2011 Hi jaapv, Take a look here Movie Mode and the M10. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
Studio58 Posted November 26, 2011 Share #42 Posted November 26, 2011 I am no expert and my opinion is based only on what I see from my own experience. Having said that though and as someone who has owned plenty of CMOS sensor cameras, I hope not. The images from the M series Leicas are fantastic. Is the issue mainly about noise at high iso's ? That has never bothered me personally, having come from the film era like many here. Back in the day when we all used film, 400 asa was as high as you really wanted to go, while some film rated at 800 was praised for its qualities. Really, it was pretty ordinary and I preferred to shoot at 160 and 400 when I had to. The M9 as you know, is a vast improvement over that and I expect that the next generation will further improve. Regarding the M10, to be honest I am not even thinking about it. When it is announced I will take an interest and I am sure it will be fabulous. I just do not think it will incorporate a video mode. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #43 Posted November 26, 2011 Ah- that explains Luddites throwing up verbally on Rick's afflatus. "Afflatus?" Wow. I even had to look that one up. "A divine creative impulse or inspiration." I like it. Jaapv, I knew I liked you. I'm taking back my last dentist joke. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #44 Posted November 26, 2011 I am no expert and my opinion is based only on what I see from my own experience. Having said that though and as someone who has owned plenty of CMOS sensor cameras, I hope not. The images from the M series Leicas are fantastic. Is the issue mainly about noise at high iso's ? That has never bothered me personally, having come from the film era like many here. Back in the day when we all used film, 400 asa was as high as you really wanted to go, while some film rated at 800 was praised for its qualities. Really, it was pretty ordinary and I preferred to shoot at 160 and 400 when I had to. The M9 as you know, is a vast improvement over that and I expect that the next generation will further improve. Regarding the M10, to be honest I am not even thinking about it. When it is announced I will take an interest and I am sure it will be fabulous. I just do not think it will incorporate a video mode. I'm totally with you on the IQ. I like the M9 at low ISO more than anything out there. I was just asking if you think, based on Herr K's recent comments, if you think the M10 is going to likely be CMOS. I know you are too smart to let me lead you into that answer. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 26, 2011 Share #45 Posted November 26, 2011 "Afflatus?" Wow. I even had to look that one up. "A divine creative impulse or inspiration." I like it. Jaapv, I knew I liked you. I'm taking back my last dentist joke. Nemo igitur vir magnus sine aliquo adflatu divino umquam fuit. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Studio58 Posted November 26, 2011 Share #46 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) clearly I am out of my depth as a discussion on digital cameras morphs into a discourse on the "Nature of the Gods" Edited November 26, 2011 by Studio58 typo 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #47 Posted November 26, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Nemo igitur vir magnus sine aliquo adflatu divino umquam fuit. "No great man ever existed who did not enjoy some portion of divine inspiration." I have to say, I'm really liking you a lot! 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
lmitch6 Posted November 26, 2011 Share #48 Posted November 26, 2011 Don't use it, then. See no evil, hear no evil... Edit, welcome to the forum. :D:D Thanks for the welcome! You're correct, I could simply not use it, but I'd still much rather not have the functionality there in the first place. Having it there still means that there are menu options and extra controls that I'd have to consciously navigate through while using the camera. One could never really 'ignore' it, only work around It. Having a tool that's purpose built for still image creation is my preferred option. There's less 'bloat', to borrow from an earlier post, between my eye/mind; and the subject I'm wanting to capture. Ultimately though, gear selection comes down to the subjective needs of each user. I have no user for or interest in video, but that's just me. Horses for courses, as the saying goes. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #49 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) Thanks for the welcome! You're correct, I could simply not use it, but I'd still much rather not have the functionality there in the first place. Having it there still means that there are menu options and extra controls that I'd have to consciously navigate through while using the camera. One could never really 'ignore' it, only work around It. Having a tool that's purpose built for still image creation is my preferred option. There's less 'bloat', to borrow from an earlier post, between my eye/mind; and the subject I'm wanting to capture. Ultimately though, gear selection comes down to the subjective needs of each user. I have no user for or interest in video, but that's just me. Horses for courses, as the saying goes. I'm sorry, but I think you are flogging a dead horse, of course. There wouldn't have be any extra controls and I'm sure you could excuse one small entry in the menu section. Maybe, Leica could even provide an option for you to delete the menu option so you would never have to even know the camera was capable of gorgeous cinema quality video. You could just pretend that the state of the art in camera technology doesn't provide for the ability to make a "motion picture" on a proper still-image tool. Edited November 26, 2011 by RickLeica Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest roey Posted November 26, 2011 Share #50 Posted November 26, 2011 What "compromises in aspects of camera performance" are you speaking of? Can you provide some sort of source that shows that video-mode causes compromise to camera performance? I don't have any sources. I don't have any experience in hardware design. This is pure conjecture on my part (I did write "might actually require compromises", didn't I?) based on the understanding that a digital camera is a complex system of hard and software and that in complex systems often design decisions in one area will affect other areas. While you are at it, please provide something that supports the notion that it increase the price when video-mode is incorporated into a camera. Seems to me that Canon did a great job of incorporating it into the 5DII a a very competitive price. As I said, I don't have any experience in hardware design, so I can't comment on the required additional and improved components necessary. The cost of those might actually be minimal compared to the MSRP of the M9. But that is not what I was thinking about. Video support would also require hardware design changes, changes to the camera controls, extensive firmware additions (to record, buffer, encode, write audio and video data) and of course lots of testing. This is not free and given the low production volume of the camera will mean that either the price will have to increase or other features that I might consider much more important will not make it into the new model. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #51 Posted November 26, 2011 I don't have any sources. I don't have any experience... As I said, I don't have any experience... Ok. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
hoppyman Posted November 26, 2011 Share #52 Posted November 26, 2011 I found images of the newly announced Canon 18mp dSLR. Here it is to scale against the M9 in plan view...... Really! Now all you need is a shrink ray and possibly a cold fusion power source that will fit in the M9 battery space. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/167143-movie-mode-and-the-m10/?do=findComment&comment=1854089'>More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 26, 2011 Share #53 Posted November 26, 2011 That is a good point. The M9 barely has the processing power to produce a decent JPG because of size constraints. What leads you to think that the hypothetical M10 electronics will have the capability to handle video data volumes? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #54 Posted November 26, 2011 That is a good point. The M9 barely has the processing power to produce a decent JPG because of size constraints. What leads you to think that the hypothetical M10 electronics will have the capability to handle video data volumes? Moore's Law? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted November 26, 2011 Share #55 Posted November 26, 2011 Possibly - and more electronic integration. I think it will be touch and go. And if Leica has to choose to allot resources they will go for the still image - no tradeoffs. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 26, 2011 Share #56 Posted November 26, 2011 Unless there's an EVF you'd have to use the rear screen to frame. That means for most people - those that don't use a tripod or similar - the video would look like crap due to camera shake. Put me down as one of the people not interested. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted November 26, 2011 Author Share #57 Posted November 26, 2011 Unless there's an EVF you'd have to use the rear screen to frame. That means for most people - those that don't use a tripod or similar - the video would look like crap due to camera shake. Put me down as one of the people not interested. I don't believe that using the rear screen would cause undo camera shake. Practice a little and I think you would do fine. I'll put you down as a maybe with some practice. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
stunsworth Posted November 26, 2011 Share #58 Posted November 26, 2011 I'll put you down as a maybe with some practice. I'll stick in the 'no thanks' camp <grin>. I already have video on my phone and Panasonic 4/3 camera. I've even tried video with Leica lenses on the Panasonic. It's just that video isn't something that 'floats my boat' as they say. It's something that's very difficult to do well, and very easy to do badly. Combine that with the fact that it doesn't interest me in the first place and I'd be happy for the M10 to remain a stills camera. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
anupmc Posted November 26, 2011 Share #59 Posted November 26, 2011 Seriously, imagining that Leica could add Video capability into the M without additional cost and complexity to themselves and the consumer is pretty delusional. And if your only argument is how come Canon could do it?.... Come on, there's a million reasons why, but the fact is, Leica is not Canon. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwbell Posted November 26, 2011 Share #60 Posted November 26, 2011 (edited) There is no need for disagreement surely? The M9 is THE perfect digital M. We are told that so very often here it must be true. We don't want better high ISO performance (get a Noctilux), we don't want an external ISO dial (real men leave it at 400), we don't want a better rear LCD (it would "bloat" the size and real men "know" the exposure)... the list goes on. So, given that the M9 cannot, ever, be improved upon, that camp is happy and nothing can top their happiness. Leaving the way free for the rest of us with the M10. Two happy camps that never need to be in each others forums. Perfect! I'll take video mode Rick, no problem. Then while travelling or out with the family where the size of the 9 is so handy, I can quickly get those lovely moments of my daughter playing without running to the car for the G9, but at quality better than the bulky 5DII. Why not. Would use it probably once a month tops - but if it's there, I'll take it. Edited November 26, 2011 by dwbell 3 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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