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You may not have noticed Fuji filed the patent on December 21,2011 and Panasonic a few days after.

The specific patent that is usually referred in this context (Photoelectric conversion element and imaging device - US 8053661 B2 - IP.com) was filed January 23, 2009 and eventually issued on November 8, 2011. Fuji has been working on organic sensor technology since 2006 at least and there are a number of publications by Fuji engineers covering these developments. The patent filed in 2009 isn’t Fuji’s first patent in this area either. You may remember that I had covered this technology in an article for LFI 2/2008.

 

As usual Fuji are playing their cards close to their chest and the latest information we have relates to developents dating back to 2008/2009. It’s hard to say where they are now, but since – despite rumours to the contrary – Fuji’s system camera X-Pro 1 won’t use an organic sensor, organic sensor technology may still not be ready for prime time.

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Guest happytogger
Fuji have not brought out a FF in small body.

And may have it intentionally bypassed.

 

Stevehuff says The new Fuji X-Pro1 – Details? Yep….FUJI IS IN THIS TO WIN IT! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

"there may be a 2nd camera being released by Fuji with a larger sensor"

in the comments Steve says

"Mmmm Hmmmmmm – from the rumblings I head on the inside, a #2 camera will be released – larger than FF."

 

PhotoRumors.com: Speculation: how about a full frame Fuji camera with M-mount? | Photo Rumors

 

Brandon Remler (who works for Fujifilm USA):

 

"Leica can have the 24 x 36 arena"

 

This is intentionally not stepping on Leica.

Fuji could easily have released a mirrorless FF M body (alongside its apsc X-Pro1 system) since the M mount is not proprietary.

 

 

 

Fuji Film's Success with Organic Imaging Sensor -- Nikkei Electronics Asia - April 2006 - Tech-On!

 

Article from 2006.

Fuji has been working on the Organic before 2006.

 

It may well be Fuji is keeping the FF organic for other buyers.

Keeping a larger than FF for its own MF system (no need to make lenses for this since Fuji already have Hassy H series).

 

 

As a side note : why wouldn't any forumees here (including mods) not want the best sensor in a Leica M.

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It may well be Fuji is keeping the FF organic for other buyers.

They would need to have an organic sensor, be it FF or larger or smaller, before they could decide whether to use it in their own cameras or to offer it to other camera vendors. And as of now we have no indication that some of Fuji’s organic sensor designs (there were at least three quite different designs) have come to fruition.

 

Keeping a larger than FF for its own MF system (no need to make lenses for this since Fuji already have Hassy H series).

Fuji doesn’t have an MF system – Hasselblad has. Fuji is just manufacturing most of the H system lenses and the prism viewfinder. It is for Hasselblad to decide where to source the sensors. And of course there is no evidence that an organic MF sensor was just around the corner. Or any organic sensor for that matter.

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Guest happytogger

I want Leica to be able to remain a top tier camera maker (even at £10K for a FF DM)

and not be forced due to financial reasons to just become a lens manufacturer.

Given Leicas highly profitable 2011 and building of plant to make lenses,

does Leica have the financial ability and time to have plant to make lots of aps-c mirrorless cameras.

 

A (b)romance with a company already researched and making a quality aps-c mirrorless makes business sense

in the selling of even more leica lenses and a chunk of profit from the bodies.

 

A happy ending Brokeback Mountain.

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As a side note : why wouldn't any forumees here (including mods) not want the best sensor in a Leica M.

 

Because there is not a shred of evidence that this "organic sensor" of yours is a better sensor, or even suitable for use in cameras, or even in existence at all beyond a monochrome low res lab experiment....:rolleyes:

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I want Leica to be able to remain a top tier camera maker (even at £10K for a FF DM)

and not be forced due to financial reasons to just become a lens manufacturer.

Given Leicas highly profitable 2011 and building of plant to make lenses,

does Leica have the financial ability and time to have plant to make lots of aps-c mirrorless cameras.

 

A (b)romance with a company already researched and making a quality aps-c mirrorless makes business sense

in the selling of even more leica lenses and a chunk of profit from the bodies.

 

A happy ending Brokeback Mountain.

 

Fuji makes sensors, Sony makes sensors, Panasonic makes sensors, Dalsa makes sensors, and many more, even Kodak (or its successor) makes sensors. I doubt Leica will limit their choices and make a decision on basis of Internet hypes.

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I doubt Leica will limit their choices and make a decision on basis of Internet hypes.

 

Where is the hype in proposing a business partnership (bromance).

 

 

A (b)romance with a company already researched and making a quality aps-c mirrorless makes business sense

in the selling of even more leica lenses and a chunk of profit from the bodies.

 

A happy ending Brokeback Mountain.

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Guest happytogger
Because there is not a shred of evidence that this "organic sensor" of yours is a better sensor, or even suitable for use in cameras,

or even in existence at all beyond a monochrome low res lab experiment....:rolleyes:

 

Naysayers never advance anything in the world.

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Guest happytogger
Design decisions should be made on rational grounds-romance is fine, but only under a full moon....

 

Kodaks demise, Olympus woes, just two examples of many wrong decisions.

Leica almost went the same way with saying they would not have a digital M.

 

The hundreds, thousands of employees of Leica, their families supported by Leica salary,

it is in their best interest that Leica board of directors, shareholders, do what is best for Leica as a business.

If that means partnering Fuji (or anyone else) so be it.

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Ummm...you might be right if Leica had indeed said they would not have a digital M. Fortunately that was not the case. They said they would have a digital M as soon as technology was advanced enough to enable them to build one that met their minimum standards - and they did.

In retrospect they were busily engaged in developing the M8 sensor with Kodak and determining the design parameters for the M8 at the time.

Leica does not need armchair CEOs making naive suggestions.

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All this speculation. I'm sure the Leica execs are rolling in laughter, perhaps not because some of the speculation is incorrect, but because it does not matter.

 

My M9 is the last 35mm format camera I will ever purchase as long as this insecurity of formats continues and I will revert to my well paid-for Hasselblad, Sinar, Linhof, Deardorff, Veriwide and Horseman formats and never look back. Leica will never, ever catch up to them.

 

Worry on. Get back to your love of bags and straps. Do you really care about Leica?

 

.

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In retrospect they were busily engaged in developing the M8 sensor with Kodak and determining the design parameters for the M8 at the time.

And while we are engaging in fruitless debates, Leica is working on their next generation of cameras. Does Leica take pains to stay up to date with current research in sensor technology, including organic sensors or alternatives to the Bayer pattern? Of course they do. Do they take interest in new developments such as hybrid viewfinders? Of course they do. But at the same time they are doing their own research and product development and even if one of us actually came up with some really good idea, chances are that Leica’s engineers are already ahead in the development cycle. (I’ve said it before but I’ll gladly say it again: Anyone feeling that he or she could contribute to Leica’s camera or lens design should apply for a job there, rather than wasting time with naysayers and dimwits such as us.)

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who exactly can play at Armchair CEO and who can't? seems like double standards reign supreme when this contentious issue pops up on the forum. And what the heck is the problem with playing A'CEO anyway? It is pretty trite to point out to someone that Leica (likely) couldn't care less about their ideas...

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New sensor technolgies are nice, but a paradigm shift is more interesting:

 

http://www.xconomy.com/boston/2010/10/20/turning-%E2%80%9Cblack-silicon%E2%80%9D-into-gold-sionyx-closes-12-5m-from-bay-area-and-seattle-firms-goes-after-camera-phone-market/

 

A billion pixels with an ISO equivalent rating of 4 million, well into the non-visible spectrum

 

This would lend a whole argument to "you can't see the beauty in my picture" ;)

Edited by colonel
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who exactly can play at Armchair CEO and who can't? seems like double standards reign supreme when this contentious issue pops up on the forum. And what the heck is the problem with playing A'CEO anyway? It is pretty trite to point out to someone that Leica (likely) couldn't care less about their ideas...

 

The answer to that one is pretty simple : only those that have inside access to Leica's information and decision making process. And they would never post this in an Internet forum. So any such post you see here is by definition nonsense.

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And what the heck is the problem with playing A'CEO anyway?

It’s fine as long as you realize it’s just play and has no relevance whatsoever in the real world.

 

In this case there was Fuji announcing the development of an EVIL camera system and, at around the same time, the US Patent Office eventually granting Fuji a patent covering some aspects of organic sensor technology – nota bene a patent that was filed three years ago, i.e. concerning fairly old developments. Now some people read some significance into this coincidence and started spreading the completely unfounded rumour that Fuji’s new camera would sport an organic sensor. This again prompted some people on this forum to advise Leica to embrace organic sensor technology, enter a partnership with Fuji, and whatever. For anyone familiar with this stuff it appeared unlikely that organic sensors were ready for prime time just yet, and while it couldn’t absolutely be ruled out that Fuji would surprise us, organic sensor technology was still untested so a thorough evaluation of its pros and cons would have been in order in any case. (Years ago when Foveon introduced the X3 full colour sensor, some people hastened to predict the demise of any camera vendor not embracing this technology or developing a similar one themselves. As we all know, Foveon’s technology hasn’t taken the photographic world by storm.)

 

And even now that the spec sheet of the X-Pro1 is available and – surprise! – it doesn’t feature an organic sensor, the talk about the imminent advent of organic sensors – in FF and MF sizes even – doesn’t stop. Once a mistaken idea has managed to take hold, it is hard to exorcise it.

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