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Fuji Leica love


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#1 Guest_happytogger_*

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 18:22

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Mirrorless Rumors | Blog | Leica announces coming surprises for 2012. Is one of them the Fuji partnership?

Leica execs have praised X100's hybrid ovf.
With what has happened with Kodak, quite possible M10 or future M's may well have Fuji's organic sensor & X100's hybrid OVF.
Fuji & Leica have ofcourse collaborated with the original Digilux being a Fuji mx700 & Digilux zoom a Fuji mx1700.
A simpled menu X10 could easily be re-badged as a Leica up from Dlux6.

Edited by happytogger, 21 November 2011 - 18:37.

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#2 wda

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 19:35

This would not be too surprising and would make economic sense. Strangely, I still have my 1.5 mega-pixel Fuji MX700, the model which Leica later adopted as described above. It was popular with jewellers who used it to document gems! Several of my pictures from it were published years ago. No, I was not a jeweller; the fact came from the friendly dealer who told me what his recent commercial customers used the little Fuji camera for.

Later: just checked and discovered I bought the camera new, towards the end of its shelf-life, in January 1999.

Edited by wda, 21 November 2011 - 19:37.
Added note.

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(Leica user since ... a very long time ago)

#3 Guest_happytogger_*

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 21:31

Fuji’s Organic Sensor Technology | Peter.vdHamer.com

Benefits of Fuji's organic sensor if used on 35mm sensor M :
No micro lenses (M9 problems when viewed at 100% with wide angle lenses caused by micro lenses is eliminated).
No 2/3 interpolated colour of M9 Bayer.
High iso
(Fuji have said better than the current best high iso dslr which is Nikon D3s).
Fuji's sensor eliminates issues of having no AA filter on current M9, M9p sensors eg jaggies & moire are eliminated.
Possible 80MP on an 35mm sensor M.

#4 andybarton

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Posted 21 November 2011 - 22:45

Highly unlikely, I would have thought, given Leica's relationship with Panasonic and the bad blood with Hasselblad.

Leica fell out of love with Fuji and their parent years ago.

Edited by andybarton, 21 November 2011 - 22:49.

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#5 adan

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 03:09

Leica fell out of love with Fuji and their parent years ago.


Which "parent"? Is there an ownership relationship between Fujifilm (a large Japanese company with numerous interests) and Shriro Marketing, a Hong-Kong-based company that is primarily a distributorship (and - BTW - no longer even owns Hasselblad, although they still distribute their products)?

Shriro does not list Fujifilm among their imaging products anywhere on their various websites that I can see - Imaging

Even as a distributor, let alone an owner.

So far as I can tell, Fuji provides parts to Hasselblad (lens and finder glass for the H-system).

Hasselblad, owned 100% by Ventizz Capital of St. Gallen, Switzerland (VENTIZZ Capital Partners Advisory AG) makes cameras using some Fuji parts.

Shriro markets Hasselblad (and Linhof and Zeiss, among others, which they definitely DON'T own) in the Far East.

So if Leica has a beef with Shriro/Hasselblad/Imacon, Fujifilm seems to be just a bystander.

In 1998-99, Fujifilm was happily in partnership with BOTH Leica and Hasselblad, providing the Xpan to Hassy at the same time they were providing the first-round Digiluxes to Leica.

#6 andybarton

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 07:26

If I am mistaken re Hasselblad's relationship with Fuji, I apologise.

http://en.wikipedia....the_digital_age

I still think this is an unlikely rumour if only for the Panasonic angle.

Edited by andybarton, 22 November 2011 - 07:43.

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#7 adan

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 14:27

It's OK Andy - we know business relationships get pretty tangled and obscure sometimes. Just look at the whole Blackstone/LISA/Leica confusion. ;)

(On the subject of confusion - there are at least five "Fuji"-named companies in Japan, all totally unrelated and even members of competing keiretsus: Fuji Bank, Fujifilm, Fujitsu, Fuji electronics, and Fuji heavy Industries. Likely all named for the iconic mountain, not for each other)

I guess I don't see that Leica working with both Fujifilm and Panasonic would be much different than Leica working with both Kodak and Panasonic. If I'm skeptical of the rumor, it's more along the lines of "Why does Fujifilm need Leica?" But you just never know....

#8 Guest_happytogger_*

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Posted 22 November 2011 - 15:11

If I am mistaken re Hasselblad's relationship with Fuji, I apologise.

Hasselblad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I still think this is an unlikely rumour if only for the Panasonic angle.



No need to apologise.
Fujifilm are quite a mountain compared to the mole hill of Hasslebald & Leica.
Fujifilm - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Fuji Xerox - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Fujifilm's partnership with xerox.

:

Leica gains from Panasonic
Vlux & Dlux.
Royalties by allowing Panasonic to use Leica name.
Leica does not gain Panasonic sensor.


:

What would Leica gain from Fuji
It is fitting future M's should have the best sensor which would well be Fuji's organic.
Possibly X100s hybrid vf.
Possibly the upcoming mirrorless aps-c from Leica with AF will be a rebadged upcoming Fuji LX
with its organic sensor & phase detect AF.
Fujis AF lenses for the upcoming LX 18m f2, 35mm f1.4, possible 60m f1.8 & further macro, telephoto.


If I'm skeptical of the rumor, it's more along the lines of "Why does Fujifilm need Leica?"

I was wondering the same.
Fuji movie lens prices are upto $160K, Pro Lenses
Can almost guarantee most movies & top documentaries for instance the BBC stunning Frozen Planet
BBC One - Frozen Planet is filmed on lenses by Fuji.
Fuji ofcourse provide Hassleblad lenses.
Just in the 35mm still photography Fuji has gone more for budget to mid range than premium.
Should Fuji wish to go premium they can easily bring Leica class lenses.

For sure Fuji does not need an M mount.
Maybe Fuji wants to be at the top 3 with Canon & Nikon
and by allowing Leica to have Fuji technologies, it is one rung on the ladder to becoming top 3.

#9 adan

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:40

As it happens, the Fujifilm pro digital rep was in the store today to arrange our new dealership for the X10 and X100, and was able to confirm that there is no cross-ownership between Fuji and Hasselblad. They cooperate on joint ventures (like Leica and Panasonic) - the Xpan was a Fuji initiative that Hasselblad "borrowed"; the H-system was a Hasselblad initiative that Fuji got to market in Japan under their own name, in return for their technical input.

He had no knowledge of a Leica/Fuji co-project, but didn't think it was impossible, at least from Fujifilm's perspective.

#10 Rona!d

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:47

You want another obscure rumor?

Hasselblad bought Leica through Blackstone, now they will buy Fujifilm and close all Leica and Fuji factories to sell their own products. Holy sh*t!

:D
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#11 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 11:57

You want another obscure rumor?

Hasselblad bought Leica through Blackstone, now they will buy Fujifilm and close all Leica and Fuji factories to sell their own products. Holy sh*t!

:D


:D:P

#12 mjh

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:19

Highly unlikely, I would have thought, given Leica's relationship with Panasonic and the bad blood with Hasselblad.

I wouldn’t call it ‘bad blood’. There once was a cooperation supposed to offer long-term benefits for both parties involved and in the end it didn’t pan out, for various reasons. It happens, but then this is business, not bitching. Also the cooperation was originally between Leica and Imacon; Hasselblad became part of the equation only when Shriro acquired Imacon and integrated it into Hasselblad. If there were any issues on a more personal level it would have been with Christian Poulsen, then CEO of Imacon and later CEO of Hasselblad. But Christian Poulsen has left Hasselblad two years ago. And of course, none of this had any bearing on a hypothetical cooperation between Leica and Fujifilm; Fuji is only cooperating with Hasselblad in certain areas (lenses and viewfinders).

Having said that, I don’t think it likely that Fuji and Leica would enter into some kind of cooperation right now. Also I’m not convinced that Fuji’s organic semiconductor sensor technology they have been working on for many years is ready for prime time just yet (still I would be happy to be surprised).

Edited by mjh, 23 November 2011 - 16:36.

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#13 Shade

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 16:22

Sounds great but kinda far fetched. As mentioned, Fuji doesnt need or want Leica, they have their own thing going and judging by the new lens mount, I doubt any partnership will be struck.

#14 eleskin

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Posted 23 November 2011 - 22:07

If the specs on Fuji's organic sensor are what I am reading here, Leica would be very foolish to ignore this kind of revolutionary sensor technology. This could be a real game changer. Think about this: When you fly on an airliner, you may see an engine made either by Rolls Royce , GE, etc... The airplane will fly best with an engine that works the best no matter who makes it. The same should be true with a Leica M digital, especially for the premium prices and quality lenses.

#15 luigi bertolotti

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 09:22

If the specs on Fuji's organic sensor are what I am reading here, Leica would be very foolish to ignore this kind of revolutionary sensor technology. ....


True, but, supposed Fuij technology is really such a quantum leap... there are other collateral considerations :
1) Leica, to be honest, is not the most interesting customer for a Company that owns a breaking technology... if have a big investiment to have a return onto, I'd look for customers which can give me important numbers... Leica has not such numbers.
2) Leica + Panasonic could have big numbers... but this would imply a complex 3 actors agreement , with Panasonics that (I think) too has its own sensor department...
3) I don't think the other players in the sensors' arena are sitting on their armchairs... , with the "pixel density race" that seems to calm, surely they are looking to develop something new of their own: Leica , given Kodak's troubles, is surely scouting around for their future sensors... Fuij will be probably one of the options... the rest, imho, is more a business issue than a technology choice...

#16 eleskin

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 20:37

Hi Luigi,

Your points are well taken. As time marches on, I am becoming less and less interested in what camera body I am using and more interested in the Lenses I am using and most importantly the subject I am shooting. It just so happens Leica makes some of my favorite lenses as well as Voigtlander (I love the 35mm f1.2 Nokton along with my Noctilux, the complement each other well as a kit). Up until now, the M8 and M9 were the only choices. Recently I bought a Nex 5n and M adapter and I am very impressed by this little camera, especially color quality and high ISO. The NEX 7 disappointed me in that Leica M wide lenses performed poorly, hens=nce I did not buy it. I am thinking more now like the camera is a back for the lens, or even what a film holder was for view cameras. What is great is we are beginning to se the birth of what may become universal camera bodies that can use any lens ever made, SLR, M mount, etc.. Fuji may be the first to do it. If not, maybe Leica. This is the next revolution and I am very excited!
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#17 algrove

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Posted 24 November 2011 - 22:46

As time marches on, I am becoming less and less interested in what camera body I am using and more interested in the Lenses I am using and most importantly the subject I am shooting.


Now you're talking.

#18 IkarusJohn

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Posted 25 November 2011 - 00:22

Hi Luigi,

Your points are well taken. As time marches on, I am becoming less and less interested in what camera body I am using and more interested in the Lenses I am using and most importantly the subject I am shooting. It just so happens Leica makes some of my favorite lenses as well as Voigtlander (I love the 35mm f1.2 Nokton along with my Noctilux, the complement each other well as a kit). Up until now, the M8 and M9 were the only choices. Recently I bought a Nex 5n and M adapter and I am very impressed by this little camera, especially color quality and high ISO. The NEX 7 disappointed me in that Leica M wide lenses performed poorly, hens=nce I did not buy it. I am thinking more now like the camera is a back for the lens, or even what a film holder was for view cameras. What is great is we are beginning to se the birth of what may become universal camera bodies that can use any lens ever made, SLR, M mount, etc.. Fuji may be the first to do it. If not, maybe Leica. This is the next revolution and I am very excited!


+1

I suspect the M9 in all its manifestations might be the end of the line for this way of thinking.

Cheers
John
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#19 Anasebi

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 00:15

Nothing would make me happier than to see Leica be able to toss Panasonic out. It makes me cringe to see leica branded glass on those hateful image smearing 1/2.3" cameras Panasonic has made in recent history. Still with stuff like the X10 and X100, one has to ask why Fuji would see Leica as anything but a rival, no where are they lacking that Leica could help much.. even in brand now.
If it's electronic, technical and delicate; I've dealt with it.

#20 mmradman

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Posted 27 November 2011 - 00:19

Hi Luigi,

The NEX 7 disappointed me in that Leica M wide lenses performed poorly, hens=nce I did not buy it.


Too early to say, camera is still not on sale.

Only example of poor M lens performance on NEX-7 was one review with poorly focused M lens on Luminous Landscapes.

I bet floods in Thailand were caused by Leica management performing rain dance.
Regards,

Mladen


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