arghhg... the mental anguish

[FTI]

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So with determination I had put up my whole Nikon gear up for trade against an M9 body. I told myself it would be an M9 and nuttin else.

 

Few days into my ad, someone writes me and wants to know whether I'd be interested in trading for an near mint (inc. shop warranty) m8.2, with 1000clicks, and a Carl Zeiss 50mm 1.5.

 

But I wanted full frame....

 

Should I stick to my guns, or just go for the m8.2 and Zeiss. At the end of the day, I'm not worried about the crop factor as much as I am about IQ and Bokeh (must be up to par with what I get from D700 + g lenses, and zeiss glass). Would I lose too much with the m8.2?

 

I know you guys get bombarded with silly requests like this... but I can't turn to my wife for advice

[ho_co]

Remember, the 50/1.5 C Sonnar is an old design exhibiting spherical aberration. Zeiss originally didn't set it for accurate focus at full aperture, but stopped down a bit. Some purchasers of the lens had the focus re-set for open aperture.

 

The M8 is a delight, but I find that with it I tend toward wider lenses than 50 mm because of the crop factor.

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[WestMichigan]

As a very happy M8 owner, I would say that an M8 can be quite the nice camera.

As for whether the 'value' of the trade for your Nikon Kit: I am suspecting you'll be 'overpaying' for this particular M8.2 Kit being offered, BUT that kinda depends on the condition of your Nikon, the Geeee lenses, and if you've nicked up the zeiss lenses.

 

ONLY you as an individual can know whether any transaction is the Right One for you. ONLY YOU.

 

I am an slr guy from way back, with some visits in 4x5 land, and the tlr islands, too, so I can say quite strongly that shooting with a rangefinder genuinely does bring something special to the table as a photographic instrument.

 

Sincerely,

Richard in Michigan

 

So with determination I had put up my whole Nikon gear up for trade against an M9 body. I told myself it would be an M9 and nuttin else.

 

Few days into my ad, someone writes me and wants to know whether I'd be interested in trading for an near mint (inc. shop warranty) m8.2, with 1000clicks, and a Carl Zeiss 50mm 1.5.

 

But I wanted full frame....

 

Should I stick to my guns, or just go for the m8.2 and Zeiss. At the end of the day, I'm not worried about the crop factor as much as I am about IQ and Bokeh (must be up to par with what I get from D700 + g lenses, and zeiss glass). Would I lose too much with the m8.2?

 

I know you guys get bombarded with silly requests like this... but I can't turn to my wife for advice

[Studio58]

you will always lust after the full frame since that is what you want. Purchase once purchase correctly. I recently bought a mint M8 and loved it so much I bought an M9 and now have the M8 for sale. The M8 is fantastic no doubt, but if you have the means go for the M9 and enjoy all the benefits of full frame.

[BCMielke]

I'm having a similar dilemma, but I agree with Studio 58. If you want the full frame wait and get it. It will be worth it.

[menos I M6]

I still do use my M8.2 next to a M9.

In good light, I have zero issues, to choose either camera, regarding image quality (I shoot without filters mostly B&W).

 

In bad light, I strongly prefer, to shoot the M9, as it's ISO performance is clearly better, than the M8 sensor's (about 1 1/2 stops) and it's tonality into shadows is smoother with ugly stripes coming up later.

 

If lowlight is your game, the M9 should be a preference (you will arrive nowhere near the D700's low light performance though with either camera, shooting technique and available lenses aside).

 

I prefer the M8 sensor for long reach shots, as it indeed shows slightly more detail per pixel (weaker IR filter results probably in slightly more detailed files).

This manifests itself also in less sharpening needed for M8 files, opposed to M9 files (a difference in Lightroom between ~35 − 45 for M8 and 50 − 55 for M9).

 

I do not have any issues regarding the crop factor of the M8 and choose my lenses accordingly.

I do have an issue though, when I want a certain lens, to show it's full character (including light falloff and performance of outer zones) - the M8 simply doesn't allow this.

 

Wide angle choices of lenses for the M8 are more limited of course and I really enjoy 21/ 28 / 35 mm on the M9 now.

 

Personally, I find, that the M8.2 (especially with the beautiful black lacquer paint finish) is of a better built quality, than my black M9.

After half a year of daily use, the white paint fillings on the M9 are vanishing, while my few years old and similar used M8.2 shows no wear here.

 

The crystal of the M8.2 is a delight to use without fiddling with protectors.

The feel of the different black paint finish of the M8.2 is much nicer opposing the warm, plastic feel of the black powder coating off the M9 (which is much more durable though, if this is a preference).

 

I like the more accurately calibrated frame lines of the M8.2 (optimized for 2m) and don't understand, why Leica made a step back with the M9.

 

I like the more precise screen display for easily checking focus with critical shots on the M8.2, but like the quicker reaction of the M9 screen more (though blurrier).

 

I like the ISO selection via set button on the M8.2 A LOT more, as I change ISO fairly often and can do this without checking the LCD, blindfolded, while it is a bit more complicated with the M9 (although many people prefer the M9 ISO selection method - I mod not).

 

I do like the M8 top LCD for battery status - with the M9, I constantly run into empty batteries, loosing shots, as I don't get my brain, to check the info menu of the M9 often enough @#$% - with the M8, it is just a regular glance, and you are easily reminded of changing a battery early enough.

 

The rangefinder experience and accuracy + the overall handling and shooting of both cameras is almost identical apart these few differences.

 

The M8.2 is a lot more bang for the buck in my view, if the advantages of the M9 are not so important to you (half the cost for the body).

 

I can't comment on the Zeiss glass, but always disliked their 1/3 stop aperture rings, therefore, never used them.

I do have a few Sonar design lenses and know, how to handle their designed optical focus shift - if you are a person, who demands a lens, to work without this characteristic, stay away from such lenses and just get a Leica 50 Summilux ASPH for the rest of your life.

 

I do still keep my Nikon D3 for it's still amazing low light sensor.

Let me remind you:

 

Neither Leica digital will run in the same low light performance!

You have to change your shooting and post processing style, to be able, to shoot in similar light + add the odd very fast (very expensive) lens, to compensate.

 

I still shoot film, when I really need low light performance with Leica lenses (but I do mostly B&W), as pushed B&W film murders the dynamic range, tonality and look of digital M files @ ISO3200.

 

My points, that, when you are going, to be rather disappointed by the low light performance of the M9, you might as well pay half the money on the body and use an even worse low light performer - it's all a compromise.

 

I sold most of my Nikon gear after experiencing the Leica M system and love the M - I would not go back for shooting the stuff, I can do with the M.

[lct]

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If you're not worried about the crop factor, you might wish to do like me i.e. spending less on a mint M8.2 and waiting for the next M10. IQ wise the M8.2 is second to none at base iso (160) and still very good at 320. 640 iso begins to get significantly noisy but it is not an ugly noise through good raw converters like C1. Higher isos are not acceptable to me, in color at least. B&W is another story.

[FTI]

Thanks everyone; esp. Mennos for such an extensive feedback. I do appreciate it.

 

The trade is quite fair. The M8.2 is form May this year, and the lens is new as well. On my side I'd be giving up my D700, 24-70, and 85mm Zeiss. He wasn't interested in the other stuff that I offered with my set.

 

I will seriously consider this offer.

 

[menos I M6]

Thanks everyone; esp. Mennos for such an extensive feedback. I do appreciate it.

 

The trade is quite fair. The M8.2 is form May this year, and the lens is new as well. On my side I'd be giving up my D700, 24-70, and 85mm Zeiss. He wasn't interested in the other stuff that I offered with my set.

 

I will seriously consider this offer.

 

 

That sounds like a fair deal indeed.

Given, that the M8.2 really is such a new camera (bought new May 2011 with still valid warranty), I would be very tempted, even having a M9 already.

 

I shoot mostly with two bodies with different lenses, having such a nice M8.2 + 50mm kit, adding a M10 later sounds not far off (and here it just begins, let me tell you ).

[WestMichigan]

Ahhhh.. more info always helps.

Within your stated parameters,

I'd say it sounds like a reasonable exchange of objects. My previous concerns were from the implied multiple ziess lenses, multiple nikon lenses, etc. In the deal you describe, I'd be interested.

 

Note: Even if you find the M8 not to your liking and upgrade, they move fairly well imho, and if you find out Rangefinder-life sucks for you: they move fairly well to bail out.

 

Richard in Michigan

 

Thanks everyone; esp. Mennos for such an extensive feedback. I do appreciate it.

 

The trade is quite fair. The M8.2 is form May this year, and the lens is new as well. On my side I'd be giving up my D700, 24-70, and 85mm Zeiss. He wasn't interested in the other stuff that I offered with my set.

 

I will seriously consider this offer.

 

[dpitt]

I bought a M8 last year with 5 months warranty.Completely agree with menos and Richard. The M8.2 will be a great camera!

 

 

 

It is hard to add some arguments after their great replies, but let me try:

* The M8.2 will depriciate less (in absolute value) than a M9.

* It comes with one 50 mm Zeiss now, and leaves room for you to buy a second lens, possibly Leica in the near future. If you would buy a M9, adding a lens would maybe tempt you to buy a cheap lens with it as a start? I would always prefer an M8 with fine glass to a M9 with a cheap lens.

* You will probably want to buy a M9 or M10 full frame in the future. (I think I will) But even then the M8.2 will be great as a second body. It is the best way to shoot tele with a Leica M (135mm makes 180 mm equivalent) or 90 mm is great as a light and compact 120 mm equivalent. A M9 with 35 or 50 and a M8 with 90 would make a great two body set!

* The crop factor helps bringing out the best of vintage glass because it eliminates partly the weaker area's.

 

 

Just my two cents...

[WestMichigan]

I like dpitt's points...

 

I'm not in a position to say they are 'gospel' as we americans might say, but the logic sure looks sound to me.

 

I personally like my Voigtlander 28mm Ultron f1.9 a lot, but there is no denying the siren song of getting 'real' Leica Glass. I'm more flexible in my choosings due to inflexibilities in my budgets! :-)

 

R. in Mi.

[FTI]

he changed his mind....Just when I made up my mind to agree with the offer.'

 

Ach... win some and lose some.

 

Perhaps better luck next time. But I do appreciate your responses as now I would be open for other alternatives

[menos I M6]

he changed his mind....Just when I made up my mind to agree with the offer.'

 

Ach... win some and lose some.

 

Perhaps better luck next time. But I do appreciate your responses as now I would be open for other alternatives

 

I guess, that had to do with certain rumor sites?

 

Don't worry - deals come around plenty.

I would scan the classifieds here on LUF and on RFF for a nice camera.

 

I have seen M8.2 bodies recently for around 2.200 EUR and M9 bodies for around 4000.

The times of second hand M9 bodies for as high as 4500 EUR are over - you don't have to buy that high.

 

The beauty in the M system though lies in the endless choice of lenses.

I like the Leica glass, I use, but I found out a deep love for older lenses from the 50s and 60s, namely Nikon and Canon lenses.

 

There some quite famous samples to be found still for little money, which are just magical.

These are not the dead sharp, contrasty lenses of Today, but they were pretty advanced in their time, rivaling even Leica lenses and still having their special character Today.

 

Can't afford a Leica 35 Summicron version IV for 1500 EUR?

Buy a black Canon 35 ƒ2 LTM version 2 aka "Japanese Summicron" for 500 EUR!

 

Many people found out lately about the fantastic character and unequalled build quality of the Leica rigid Summicron 50mm of the 60s and 70s and prices on these lenses skyrocket, coming now into territory of second hand, latest version 50 Summicron lenses!

People learn about the beauty of the slightly softer Collapsible 50 Summicron-M, while prices are rising, they are still very affordable between 400 − 600 EUR for a beautiful sample.

 

This goes on and on.

 

The remark of buying a cheap body and only the "best" lenses is only half true with the Leica M system. What are "the best" lenses for each individual?

 

I'd say, one should certainly buy no "low budget" lenses, but there are beauties, to be found!

 

One last remark - if you consider buying a new Leica optic, do it still in this year and place your official order, as Leica raises prices again in January.

Buy your lens still now and be sure, to get the same money back, should you want to sell it after finding, it might not be for you.

[WestMichigan]

What Menos Said!

 

:-)

[Double Negative]

A bit late to the party, but my two pence - the M8 is still a great camera. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend or use one. Though a 50mm lens on it might be a little long for some tastes, being that it's roughly about a 67mm equivalent. You might be happier with a 35mm lens. As for the C Sonnar, it's an awesome little lens but might not suit everyone. Yes, it does have a bit of focus shift - which is easy to compensate for, if you can be bothered - the reward is a very unique look to the images. I love mine.

[brill64]

once you've convinced the wife you've changed your mind for the m8 + zeiss, you're never going to re-convince her or justify that you want to upgrade later to an m9. having said that, i'm looking for a used m8.2..

[dpitt]

The first Leica lens I bought was a 40-C Summicron, a real gem on the M8!They can be had around 400$ in good condition.

If you are lucky, you can even find a CL with the 40C Summicron and a 90 Elmar-C for less than double that like I did

 

 

After a while I gave the 40C a CLA and a modification to bring up 35mm frame. Still a bargain if you compare it to other Summicron's.

[Double Negative]

To be totally honest, my favorite lens, ever, on the M8 was the Zeiss Biogon T* 2,8/25 ZM. With the crop it was a 33mm equivalent, so a nice FoV. As for the lens itself, granted - it's not the fastest out there... But man, could it deliver the business. You'd be hard-pressed to find a better lens out there - from anyone. Stop it down to f/5.6 or so, set the hyperfocal and just go to town.

 

Some shots around Tik'al in Guatemala that I basically shot that way. It was a fast-moving tour, so it was a point-and-shoot kind of affair. But the images (especially at 100%) are mind-boggling.

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Erik Gunst Lund]

....After a while I gave the 40C a CLA ......

The optics of this lens is more or less sealed... so I guess it was jet an outside 'wipe off' CLA