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The NEX 7 Leica lens thread


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#1 eleskin

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 17:46

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I thought I would start it. I see a Ricoh GRX thread, but not a thread specific to the NEX 7 and Leica lenses. I know the NEX 7 is not for sale yet, but some have used the camera and there are more threads every day. The NEX 7 is bound to be a hit (for the price, you get a hi resolution sensor, rangefinder like layout, and great high ISO for a great price) and I am interested in this camera exclusively for my Leica M and Leica screw mount lenses.

So here is the thread, open to anyone who uses Leica lenses and is very interested in the NEX 7. This is wide open. Post thoughts, photos, or anything else, just make sure Leica lenses are included in this discussion. We have to honor the rules of L Camera Forum!
  • mmradman and Calotypos said thank you to this

#2 lct

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 21:32

I have only questions sorry. How high would you rate the behavior of Sony Nex cameras with wide M lenses? How efficient are the offset microlenses of the sensors if any? Are the results better than those from 4/3 cameras with wide M lenses? Are there EVFs available and how fast and accurate are the latters in manual focusing of M lenses?

#3 mmradman

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 21:43

NEX-7 is fitted with built in EVF of very high specification.
Lesser NEX-5N comes with optional external EVF of the same specification.

For me APS-C sensor size is in part show stopper but opportunity to use M, R, also my Nikon AiS, G lenses and even Pentax K lenses on the same digital back with few simple mechanical adapters is really very tempting - all manually focused and stop down metered of course.

No brainer I anticipate massive interest in this camera, providing it is half good as anticipated it may change direction of photography.

In answer to previous question there are number of pretty good examples of M lenses being used on previous NEX-5 model on flickr, also I think NEX-C3 with M lenses is shown here on LUF http://www.l-camera-...nses-nexc3.html.

Edited by mmradman, 10 September 2011 - 21:50.
NEX-C3 added

Regards,

Mladen

#4 k-hawinkler

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Posted 10 September 2011 - 22:58

eleskin,

Thanks for starting this thread.

I am interested in both the Ricoh GRX and Sony NEX-7 for my Leitz/Leica and some Nikon lenses. I have quite a few older Leitz lenses with detachable heads and Telyts that work well via adapters on the Nikon D3 and D300 or with Visoflex III on the M9.

It would be nice, in addition to the M9, to have another camera that could utilize the wide angle Leica M lenses as well.

It will be interesting to see how the 24 MP of the NEX-7 will compare IQ-wise to the 12 MP of the GXR A12 M Module, once both are available.

I have a need for both FF and APS-C size sensors. I trust it's only a question of time until an FF sensor shows up in these types of cameras. APS-C is interesting as well for the extra reach.

Of course, a Leica M10 is at the top of my to get list. I hope Leica will build some innovations into the M10.

Best, K-H.

#5 eleskin

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 03:26

Crazy Comparison! Sony NEX-5n and Leica M9 Image Quality! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

Check out this thread by Steve Huff regarding the NEX 5n vs M9. In terms of pure image quality, I cannot tell the difference with the 50mm Summilux mounted on either camera!

#6 k-hawinkler

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 03:58

Crazy Comparison! Sony NEX-5n and Leica M9 Image Quality! | STEVE HUFF PHOTOS

Check out this thread by Steve Huff regarding the NEX 5n vs M9. In terms of pure image quality, I cannot tell the difference with the 50mm Summilux mounted on either camera!



That's just a comparison of jpg images.
I need to see a comparison based on raw files.

Thanks, K-H.

#7 LichMD

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 06:07

That's just a comparison of jpg images.
I need to see a comparison based on raw files.

Thanks, K-H.


True, a raw to raw comparison is the ultimate proof. But taken on their own merit the jpegs coming out of the NEX-5N are very good and while they exhibit some CA that can be fixed in a number of ways.

It will be very ingesting to see how the NEX-7 compares to the M9. More options is usually a good thing.
A photograph is a secret about a secret. The more it tells you the less you know.
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#8 berndr

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 10:42

I have only questions sorry. How high would you rate the behavior of Sony Nex cameras with wide M lenses? How efficient are the offset microlenses of the sensors if any? Are the results better than those from 4/3 cameras with wide M lenses? Are there EVFs available and how fast and accurate are the latters in manual focusing of M lenses?


For me this is also the main point. I heart about a microlens array on the NEX-7 and the NEX-5n sensor.

For example the Voitländer 4,5/15 performance is much better (especially in the corners) on the NEX-3C then on NEX-3/5. I have seen some samples in the net, but don't remember where.

I hope the new sensors will work fine with the wideangle M lenses.

What will be the best choice for the 24mm FF equivalent?

2,8/15 Zeiss Distagon
4/16-21 Leica Tri Elmar
4,5/15 Voigtländer
2,8/15 Leica R ASPH.

Any other ideas?

Regards,
Bernd.

#9 lct

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 11:01

Yes 50mm lenses are not a problem. The problem is wides. Vignetting on wides. Loss of resolution on wides. Color shifts on wides. What about wides? Have some reviewers ever tried the Sonys with a 15, 18 or even 21mm M lens? Just (very much) curious.

#10 mmradman

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 14:58

Yes 50mm lenses are not a problem. The problem is wides. Vignetting on wides. Loss of resolution on wides. Color shifts on wides. What about wides? Have some reviewers ever tried the Sonys with a 15, 18 or even 21mm M lens? Just (very much) curious.


Fantastic thing this internet, here is 12mm on NEX-5N, other are not far behind http://www.rangefind...threadid=110341
Regards,

Mladen

#11 eleskin

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 15:56

I am also a member of Rangefinder Forum and I also had a chance to evaluate the results from the thread with the 12mm Voigtlander lens attached to the NEX 5N. It seems there is little if any color fringing on the edges, sharpness from corner to corner, and very little darkening of the edges. In other words, wide angle lenses work well with the new NEX 5N sensor and I am sure the NEX 7 will be even better!

#12 mmradman

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 16:35

I wouldn't assume anything yet, high expectations can turn either way.

Lets be cautious for a while but even if NEX-7 turns out to be a flop at least NEX-5N looks promising and it can still be fitted with optional EVF - probably key attraction on NEX camera.

Lets not forget that NEX-5N has amazing 16MP, fraction less than NEX-7 and better high ISO performance to boot. For APS-C size sensor camera either 16 or 20Mp are mega big - fitting task for Leica optics :).
Regards,

Mladen

#13 lct

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Posted 11 September 2011 - 16:47

Fantastic thing this internet, here is 12mm on NEX-5N...

I did not say 12mm because the CV 12/5.6 vignettes less than the 15/4.5 on the R-D1. Thanks anyway :)

#14 Guest_malland_*

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Posted 12 September 2011 - 06:51

...It will be interesting to see how the 24 MP of the NEX-7 will compare IQ-wise to the 12 MP of the GXR A12 M Module, once both are available...

Yes, that is what I am interested in seeing as well. M-12 module, works well and focuses easily — I tried it briefly last Friday at the Ricoh Camera importer at Bangkok and posted a couple of pictures taken with the DR Summcron 50mm and the Heliw SWC 15mm lenses on the GXR M-Module thread here.

The M-A12 has no AA filter, which seems to let the look characteristic of the particular lens to come through, which the M8 and M9 also do. The NEX-7 apparently has a "light AA filter". The M-A12 has offset micro-lenses designed for wide-angle M-lenses, whose exit pupils are close to the plane of the sensor. One would assume that the micro-lenses of the NEX-7 would be optimized for wide-angle Sony lenses, whose exit pupils are not that close of the sensor plane, and there would not work as well with wide-angle M-lenses; but we won't know this until the NEX-7 are tested by users. The NEX-7 has a 2.4 million dot EVF, which has much higher resolution than that of the M-A12 — perhaps it might allow easy focus without focus assist. We'll see in a few months.

BTW, the Steve Huff comparison between the NEX-5N and the M9, doesn't show anything at all from the picture chosen for this.

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#15 Anasebi

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 12:38

I have only questions sorry. How high would you rate the behavior of Sony Nex cameras with wide M lenses? How efficient are the offset microlenses of the sensors if any? Are the results better than those from 4/3 cameras with wide M lenses? Are there EVFs available and how fast and accurate are the latters in manual focusing of M lenses?


The older cheap NEX-C3 has from what I've seen has the best offset microlenses for combating color cast. It only becomes noticeable in lenses that we would consider near unusable for digital due to color cast. The Nex-7, like the Nex-5n is should have good offset lenses as well.

The Ricohs sensor is not as effective, like M9 needs profile. Even without AA filter its resolution seems inferior to the 16mp Nex sensors too.

Sony NEX-C3 first impressions - FM Forums

They go over it every which way. As for M43, to me M43 is to APS-C what full frame is to APS-C.. The performance of new APS-C easily confirms this, they perform on a level distinctly superior to M43 cameras. M43 has better lenses imho, but the NEX fad seems to be all about the adapted glass.
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#16 lct

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Posted 14 September 2011 - 13:36

Thank you much but did you see many samples from wides in this thread or elsewhere?
I mean wider than 28mm (12, 15, 16, 18, 21, 24, 25)?
Because 28 (aka 42) is yet a standard lens on APS-C and i've never had problems with 28s and over on my R-D1s.
Each time i read reviews like this, people seem to use standard or tele leses which don't prove anything about quality of the sensor's microlenses unfortunately.

Excerps of your link above:

Question: Luke, isn't the ZM18 a retrofocus design ? If so I wouldn't expect to see much of a color cast issue with. I think the major problem, at least with the 3/5 was things like a Biogon design like the 21G etc had.

Answer: (…) I don't remember specifically about the 18 on the NEX, but I know that users have had trouble with the ZM25 - and there's no trace of a color cast on the C3.

Answer: Millsart, I tried Boris' (bobu's) ZM 18 on my NEX5, and there definitely was a colour cast.

Question: that's very exciting to hear about the color cast problem! did you shoot any shots with the 18mm near infinity (that is where the problem appears to be most severe. there's always the chance that the sony raw converter is blurring it away too.

Answer: Yes, I have actually quite a few infinity focus shots with the ZM 18. There was one problem though - there was a smudge on the rear element which sort of did not improve the lens performance.

Question: What about smearing in the corners with the zm/rangefinder wides, I think that was a problem with the nex-3/5.

Answer: Definitely not with 35 & 28mm. Not sure about the ZM 18



#17 salim

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 17:01

I am too waiting for the NEX-7. In my opinion it would be the best Backup for my M9

I have a question, how one focus on NEX-7 with L lens, is it the same as the range finder. How does it work?
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#18 Shade

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 17:09

I am actually looking forward to it. The nex7 will complement the lack of low light ability of my m9. So far I am using a c3 and I am loving the result. Sure aps c may not be to everyone's liking, but carrying two small cameras is a bliss.

#19 berndr

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Posted 16 September 2011 - 19:32

I am too waiting for the NEX-7. In my opinion it would be the best Backup for my M9

I have a question, how one focus on NEX-7 with L lens, is it the same as the range finder. How does it work?


There are 3 possibilities:
- normal focusing via the EVF screen picture
- exact focusing via image magnification in the EVF
- peaking mode: Imaging Resource: Sony NEX-C3 Focus Peaking demo - YouTube

Regards,
Bernd.

#20 Anasebi

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Posted 17 September 2011 - 05:29

I'm beginning to have second thoughts about the NEX.

With the pictures posted for the Nex7 with the Zeiss 1.8; I'm not that impressed. The 16mp Nex C3/5n output such clean clean crisp images, and even accounting for jpeg and the lenses, the Nex7 is not looking so good with the full res examples.

The smudging and artifacts are the signs that 24mp is asking to much out the sensor. At best it looks just like the A77 images which suffer the same problems; so not much use blaming pre-production.

I'm just hoping the photographers were idiots, or ISO100 is just rotten and somehow the sensor prefers ISO200. Would be a big blow to the NEX line to have it caught up in the muddy sensor megapixel backlash that often hits the point and click market.

I own an nex3 and use it, a lot, so I know its not just me being spoiled by using a full frame camera. Also I still stand by my belief base off of raw examples that the NEX c3/5n kick Ricohs module into the dirt, and the NEX peaking function does so similarly to Ricoh's pseudo peaking, If you think Ricohs is as good you've not used Sony's peaking. Ah, my dad loves his GXR and its still a good camera, just the NEX fill the niche so much better for less money.

Edited by Anasebi, 17 September 2011 - 05:34.

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