Fontmedia Posted January 23, 2011 Share #1 Posted January 23, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Hi, I am a new Leica RF user, and I have a 35mm Summaron with the goggles that I have just purchased. The vertical alignment when focusing is off and fails to adjust. I followed various instructions to remove the sealing wax and screw the three adjusting screws on the round optics of the goggles. Horizontal alignment is off as well, but I believe by a very little. I haven't had a chance to shoot any test film with this yet, but was curious about everyone's opinion regarding this type of situation. I also have a 50mm Summarit that does not exhibit this issue on the same camera, so I feel confident it is this particular 35mm. My concern is that my attempt at adjusting the alignment resulted in no movement of the rangefinder focusing. And might that mean there is something more fundamentally wrong with this lens. The lens is in very good condition visually, both the glass and the metal, but I do notice a little "sticking" as I focus toward infinity. I assumed that might correct itself with a little use, but I'm not sure about the focus issue. Thank you for your expertise and information. Kurt BTW, these lenses are on a DS M3. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted January 23, 2011 Posted January 23, 2011 Hi Fontmedia, Take a look here 35mm Summaron with Goggles won't align. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
jaapv Posted January 23, 2011 Share #2 Posted January 23, 2011 Adjusting the alignment of the goggles won't affect the rangefinder focussing itself. I guess that you either have to play around with the little screws on the goggles a bit more, or it has been knocked out of alignment so much that adjustment isn't possible any more (very unlikely) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontmedia Posted January 23, 2011 Author Share #3 Posted January 23, 2011 Please excuse my ignorance ... but if the vertical position of the rangefinder focus is off, only on this lens so far as I can tell, wouldn't it have to be a byproduct of how the goggles are working? Or does the lens, proper, also control the vertical positioning somehow? I thought the lens would only control the horizontal axis of the focusing? I'm really trying to wrap my head around this so I know where to focus my attention on a solution. And I certainly don't understand the intricacies of Leica M lens. I think you are right in that being that far out of alignment would seem to indicate a "repeated large trauma" to the goggles that doesn't seem to be visible. But, at the same time, I had the screws backed almost all the way out of the goggles, so I would think that would have made a "slight" difference to the position - which it didn't seem to in the least. Befuddled, Kurt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted January 23, 2011 Share #4 Posted January 23, 2011 Please excuse my ignorance ... but if the vertical position of the rangefinder focus is off, only on this lens so far as I can tell, wouldn't it have to be a byproduct of how the goggles are working? Or does the lens, proper, also control the vertical positioning somehow? I thought the lens would only control the horizontal axis of the focusing? I'm really trying to wrap my head around this so I know where to focus my attention on a solution. And I certainly don't understand the intricacies of Leica M lens. I think you are right in that being that far out of alignment would seem to indicate a "repeated large trauma" to the goggles that doesn't seem to be visible. But, at the same time, I had the screws backed almost all the way out of the goggles, so I would think that would have made a "slight" difference to the position - which it didn't seem to in the least. Befuddled, Kurt You're correct that the goggles are respnsible for the vertical misalignment. If by some chance the images don't line up horizontally at infinity (but are ok with your other lens/es) then that would be another goggles problem as well. My own idea would be to send the lens to a competent Leica technician and let him/her use skill and knowledge to fix the issue for good. It would be money well spent, I think. I have a 35/2.8 Summaron and can promise you it's a superb lens. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 23, 2011 Share #5 Posted January 23, 2011 You may need to adjust both the round lens and the square lens, You may need a laser pointer and a jury rigged clamping arrangement. Otherwise pro camera repair person. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
ho_co Posted January 24, 2011 Share #6 Posted January 24, 2011 Like the others, I also recommend Sherry or DAG or Leica or any experienced Leica technician. The goggles were a proper solution at their time; but Leica repair techs hate them because (as you've discovered) they are fiddly and time-consuming. Leica (when I worked there) had a jig on which the lens was mounted. That saved time because they could adjust and see the changes at the same time, instead of having to adjust, then check on the camera, then remove and re-adjust etc. As Jaap said, it's possible that the goggles mount itself is damaged, not just the individual lenses knocked out of adjustment. Good luck. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontmedia Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #7 Posted January 24, 2011 Advertisement (gone after registration) Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the time and clarifications you all gave to my issue with the lens. Now off to the shop. Best, Kurt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontmedia Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #8 Posted January 24, 2011 Ok, the tinker in me had to take a look at the workings of this googles thing, so I took off the back plate and took a look inside. Basically the round goggle is held in place by the two set screws and a simple spring placed opposite. In case any one is curious, if you were looking down at the back side of the round optic, the two screws would be placed at 3 and 6 o'clock, and the spring is in a little chamber at about 10:30. From this configuration, the round optic would seem to be somewhat free floating, where the set screws could make a difference in the adjustment. However, in this case, the round optic seems to be frozen. This would explain why I couldn't make any adjustments last night. Has any one heard of these round optics freezing up? or perhaps some rust has joined the metal. What is funny, is I think I could fix it given some more tinkering, but I can't budge the little round piece. I'm gonna noodle on it for awhile, so if anyone has any bright ideas, would love to hear them. Thanks again for everything. Kurt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 24, 2011 Share #9 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi Steal gfriends nail lacquer remover, moisten q tip with remover and dab... a good teck will/may have used a setting agent... Noel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicoleica Posted January 24, 2011 Share #10 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi Steal gfriends nail lacquer remover, moisten q tip with remover and dab... a good teck will/may have used a setting agent... Noel I'd suggest that asking nicely to use some acetone may be a better idea. You will probably find that asking, rather than stealing, will greatly enhance your living experience! (As in, you may continue to live!) 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaapv Posted January 24, 2011 Share #11 Posted January 24, 2011 And keep the acetone off the crinkly paint - if you are lucky it will crinkle a bit more,if not it will dissolve. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 24, 2011 Share #12 Posted January 24, 2011 Hi Nicola X Noel Hi Jaapv The qtips were to minimise exposure, normally I'd use blackboard paint after dismantle and garish red nail lacq. Noel 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontmedia Posted January 24, 2011 Author Share #13 Posted January 24, 2011 My wife of 26 years might have a problem with me seeing my girlfriend, but I'll ask! Thanks for the acetone idea everyone, I'll give that a try later tonite. Best, Kurt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
jpattison Posted January 25, 2011 Share #14 Posted January 25, 2011 normally I'd use blackboard paint after dismantle and garish red nail lacq. Noel Yes, Noel, but what would you use on the goggles? John 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontmedia Posted January 25, 2011 Author Share #15 Posted January 25, 2011 Thank you all for all the help and instruction. The acetone worked like a charm. After applying the acetone the round optic came loose in about 15 to 20 minutes. So I have a few questions, and I know I'm getting to be a bit like a rash, hopefully I can return some knowledge in the future. (Anyone interested in Montage, Collage, and Appropriation in Photography in the 1920s - 1990s) So here are my current questions: In working loose the optic, it seems that some of bits of the old setting agent have gotten between some the lens elements. The optic is like a little top hat, and I was wondering if there was a straightforward way to remove that and clean/blow out between the lenses. I'm guessing not, so it seems that I will need to send off to a pro, but I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing anything super easy. BTW, that is what has impressed me most about the leica equipment I have seen so far. Very straightforward, and classic solutions to the problems that cameras and optics raise. Secondly, I wonder why techs/Leica would use a setting agent on a system that allows calibration that is as "efficient and elegant" as the one they use in the googles. Is this just to make everything 'locked down'? It just seems that the value of slight/precise calibrations would outweigh that security? Lastly, I note that on the top of the googles, there is a thumbscrew, that I don't know what that might be used for. Dead center on the top, doesn't fully unscrew, but will go up about 1/4-inch. Is this for some attachment? Thanks again for all the help, and I do hope I can return the favor in the near future. Ever Curious, Kurt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
scsambrook Posted January 26, 2011 Share #16 Posted January 26, 2011 It sounds as though you have a 35mm f3.5 Summaron . . . in which case slackening-off the screw lets you remove the 'goggles' from the lens mount. It's a firm fit, retained by a spring-loaded ball. I've never really been sure why this facility exists - maybe it made manufacture easier. You can't actually use the lens without the goggles as the viewfinder is no longer correct and - I think from memory - the focusing locks as well. 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 26, 2011 Share #17 Posted January 26, 2011 It sounds as though you have a 35mm f3.5 Summaron . . . in which case slackening-off the screw lets you remove the 'goggles' from the lens mount. It's a firm fit, retained by a spring-loaded ball. I've never really been sure why this facility exists - maybe it made manufacture easier. You can't actually use the lens without the goggles as the viewfinder is no longer correct and - I think from memory - the focusing locks as well. hi scsambrook The rangefinder is not accurate without the googles, it is easier to store the lens in some gbags without the googles. Hi Kurt The reason people use setting agents is to secure against vibration- In a slr the mirror return may not be damped and the repeated returns can loosen fine pitched thread screws, autos and aircraft will vibration test equipment, and minor bumps dont help larger structures, like rangefinder components. I can only help you with generic things, e.g. all the teccos will use a setting agent. Google key words see if some one has posted diagnostic mechanisms, we would be interested in any instructions and photos you can provide, donno where they live (on the site). Noel 1 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fontmedia Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share #18 Posted January 27, 2011 That is correct about the 35mm 3.5 Summa. It's surprising that it was so far out of whack and still pretty solidly set in place. I can understand about the vibration. It was surprisingly easy and straightforward to get to where I am now, but it seems like the "brim" of the hat shaped round goggle doesn't want to come out of the round holder. I may try a bit more, and then if unsuccessful, just send off for repair. The sad part is that it is "so close" but I suppose that is always the way; yet, I feel I may be going against the good advice of, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." If I come up with something, I'll post photos and a detailed description. Kurt Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xmas Posted January 28, 2011 Share #19 Posted January 28, 2011 That is correct about the 35mm 3.5 Summa. It's surprising that it was so far out of whack and still pretty solidly set in place. I can understand about the vibration. It was surprisingly easy and straightforward to get to where I am now, but it seems like the "brim" of the hat shaped round goggle doesn't want to come out of the round holder. I may try a bit more, and then if unsuccessful, just send off for repair. The sad part is that it is "so close" but I suppose that is always the way; yet, I feel I may be going against the good advice of, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." If I come up with something, I'll post photos and a detailed description. Kurt Hi Kurt Forgot something... If you get it apart dont use black board paint until you have it back together, instead uise a black sharpie on any lens elements or assemblies that are close tolerance, the ground glass parts of any lens need to be black, to allow you to se then on the deep pile carpet if for no other reason, helps when trying to focus contra jour as well. The black board paint will reduce assembly tolerances, and make stripping more difficult,... Noel Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
robleicaaizu Posted July 20, 2016 Share #20 Posted July 20, 2016 I am trying what Fontmedia described above to my summaron 35mm f3.5 goggles. Loosened the three adjusting screws for the round lens and found the lens element glued tight. The next steps were not clearly described: 1) Where do you apply the tiny bit of acetone ? 2) Is it necessary to take off the round lens element by removing the front round silver metal cap ? 3) Are vertical/horizontal alignments affected by how the rectangular lens (of the goggles) is screwed in place ? Rob Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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