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Capture One Pro V6 - Is it the best for Black and White Work?


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#1 ZagatoV12

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 15:41

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Hi All,

I've been working my way through various RAW processors, intending to find my preferred monochrome conversion environment among the most current offerings.

Recently, I came across the new version of Capture One - V6. In initial trials, it looks very good. Does anyone else have experiences of doing this kind of work in C1, that they could share? :)

I have my first impressions in a mini-post at Capture One Pro 6 for Black and White Photography First Impressions Has anyone else tried its new B&W facilities?

Mike
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#2 Marquinius

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 17:31

Mike,

I've been looking at B&W for ages and tried about everything. I'm sure C1 is perfect, but I'm also sure that any other DPP-prog will do nicely if you know what you're doing. In the end it's all about starting with a good color photo and then do your personal magic, be it CS5, LR3 or C1.

I had a look at that review you url-ed ... I'm no fan of presets! Every image is different and every image needs to be processed according to depth, structure, high/low key aspects, etc. Presets make you believe that all is OK, but also will make you less specific and focused.

And it can be my eyesight and monitor, but that photo (roll of hay in field) is too sharp! Look at those stubs in front of the roll!

So: go for C1 if you like it. But think B&W on your own merits.

ps: I'm not sure if this still applies, but at least until short time ago, printing from C1 was not possible.
Marco

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#3 jaapv

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 17:46

I agree completely about the sharpening, Marco. C1 is certainly not the best program for that. The image looks more like it was sharpened in one pass with the wrong radius setting. Yes, you can print from 6.0 pro. But I would advise against it, because of the very limited sharpening options and lack of soft-proofing.
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#4 archi4

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 18:03

I would suggest looking at the Phase One tutorial video on B&W. he profiles provided are starting points.
Sharpening in Capture One is completely in the hand of the user and can be finely tuned.
In version 6 you can also apply it as a local adjustment in a layer.
The only feature in LR3 with respect to sharpening which I greatly value is the masking.
With all due respect, snap judgements on a truly excellent program do not always do it justice.

Edited by archi4, 11 January 2011 - 18:04.
typo


#5 jaapv

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 18:05

I would hardly callit a snap judgement. I have been using all the versions of the program since 2.0 and am now on 6.0 pro. Still use it as my main raw converter. And yes, 6.0 is improved, but still it cannot touch the level of ACR 6.0- CS5 regarding sharpening and noise control. Otoh, color and detail rendering are superior in C1, as is defringing..

Edited by jaapv, 11 January 2011 - 18:08.

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#6 archi4

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 19:53

Jaap, I stand corrected and didn't mean to be so grumpy.
I must agree that both sharpening and noise correction are much more advanced in LR3/PS5 as also demonstrated in your workflow for high iso developing.
regards, maurice

#7 ZagatoV12

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 21:01

Thank you gentlemen. I've just added two more images - one just converted using C1 and the other from ACR6, CS5 and Silver Efex Pro. Would you please give me your opinion of these?

Your view is much appreciated.
Mike
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#8 Jamie Roberts

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 22:36

{snipped}. But I would advise against it, because of the very limited sharpening options and lack of soft-proofing.


Hey Jaap, I think soft-proofing actually works quite well by output profile in C1 V6... but you need to uncouple it from your output profile.

The new soft-proofing actually caused me to create my own CMYK profile which lets me measure and adjust skin tones without killing the dynamic range from an RGB preview.

As for sharpening, what exactly are you missing in C1? Smart sharpen or something like that? I wouldn't personally, sharpen in a RAW capture but you certainly can do it... especially now that JPEG output is so much improved (I tend to print JPEGs usually not TIFFs).

#9 Jamie Roberts

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 22:36

Thank you gentlemen. I've just added two more images - one just converted using C1 and the other from ACR6, CS5 and Silver Efex Pro. Would you please give me your opinion of these?

Your view is much appreciated.
Mike


I think the C1 version looks quite good, as far as I can tell on the screen :)

#10 jaapv

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Posted 11 January 2011 - 23:31

Hey Jaap, I think soft-proofing actually works quite well by output profile in C1 V6... but you need to uncouple it from your output profile.

The new soft-proofing actually caused me to create my own CMYK profile which lets me measure and adjust skin tones without killing the dynamic range from an RGB preview.

As for sharpening, what exactly are you missing in C1? Smart sharpen or something like that? I wouldn't personally, sharpen in a RAW capture but you certainly can do it... especially now that JPEG output is so much improved (I tend to print JPEGs usually not TIFFs).

I'm very pleased with the " capture sharpening" in ACR, as the extra sliders that create an edge mask on the fly and the multifunction slider of detail work exceedingly well, especially with the alt function, and the noisereduction is superior imo. Also I like the possibility to work with smart objects and layer masks for creative sharpening. For output sharpening I guess there is not much of a difference. I agree that smart sharpen does not deliver its promise.
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#11 ZagatoV12

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 00:10

Hello Jaap,

Does that mean that you would recommend RAW conversion in C1 to a 'tonally balanced' monochrome image, with the expected detail benefits claimed for C1, then exporting into CS5 for sharpening and final output?

Thanks for your opinion, in advance :)

Mike
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#12 ZagatoV12

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 00:18

Thanks Jamie. Incidentally, we both seem to be using the same blog theme from NetRivet. Nice. Is your older blog still online?

Mike
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#13 Jamie Roberts

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 05:14

Thanks Jamie. Incidentally, we both seem to be using the same blog theme from NetRivet. Nice. Is your older blog still online?

Mike


Hi Mike--nope I think the older blog is gone... and the newer one needs mouth-to-mouth right now :) I'm the world's worst blogger, I'm sure!

But my New Year's resolution is to revitalize my blog, post at least bi-weekly, and roll out my new web site. The question is when will I start :) :D

#14 jaapv

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 10:27

Hello Jaap,

Does that mean that you would recommend RAW conversion in C1 to a 'tonally balanced' monochrome image, with the expected detail benefits claimed for C1, then exporting into CS5 for sharpening and final output?

Thanks for your opinion, in advance :)

Mike

Well, that is what I do anyway :) With the addition that I am not above messing around with it further in CS5 in other respects as well ;)
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#15 ZagatoV12

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 18:36

Well, that is what I do anyway :) With the addition that I am not above messing around with it further in CS5 in other respects as well ;)


Well, that's interesting. I wonder how many others do something similar? Do you have a preferred sharpening workflow - a 'typical' approach you could summarize? I know it will be image dependent, of course, but the general principles. In ACR6 and CS5 I've been doing something really simple suggested by Scott Kelby in his books on CS5.

By the way, I found your old and your new blog. I really enjoyed your selection from 2009 favorites. Some beautiful work there if I may say so. I sympathise with your problem restarting your blog. It does take a heck of a lot of effort. My approach is to blog whenever I've just completed some major task. I reasoned that if I've done all that work pursuing some aspect of photography, I may as well share it with others and when they respond I always learn something new. Quid Pro Quo kind of thing. :)

I added two more images to the post on C1 - getting nicer all the time - I hope. It seems I am now able to achieve a more subtle result from scratch in V6. Happy to learn from others more experienced than me, so do share your preferred sharpening approach if you have time.

Mike
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#16 jaapv

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 18:51

:confused:I don't have a blog...just a website...
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#17 ZagatoV12

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 19:55

:confused:I don't have a blog...just a website...


Oh dear :eek:. I'm soooooo sorry Jaap. I got my responses mixed together without making it clear. My question about sharpening workflow was to you, and my response on the blog thing was to Jamie. My most humble apologies!

Actually, I spent some time looking at your site, Jaap, earlier in the week and particularly liked some of your Dutch Landscapes (Geese in Sunset) on your gallery at RFF and your Black and White work (Disagreement, Levels and Snow) on your website. Excellent stuff and inspiring too.

Sorry again.:)

Mike
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#18 Marquinius

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Posted 12 January 2011 - 21:23

Well, that is what I do anyway :) With the addition that I am not above messing around with it further in CS5 in other respects as well ;)


That's how I use LR3: first steps, then go to CS and work it some more. I'm still not sure if printing from CS differs in quality from LR, though.
Marco

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#19 jaapv

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 00:48

Oh dear :eek:. I'm soooooo sorry Jaap. I got my responses mixed together without making it clear. My question about sharpening workflow was to you, and my response on the blog thing was to Jamie. My most humble apologies!

Actually, I spent some time looking at your site, Jaap, earlier in the week and particularly liked some of your Dutch Landscapes (Geese in Sunset) on your gallery at RFF and your Black and White work (Disagreement, Levels and Snow) on your website. Excellent stuff and inspiring too.

Sorry again.:)

Mike

No problem :) and thanks :)
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#20 Jamie Roberts

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Posted 13 January 2011 - 07:28

{Snipped}

By the way, I found your old and your new blog. I really enjoyed your selection from 2009 favorites. Some beautiful work there if I may say so. I sympathise with your problem restarting your blog. It does take a heck of a lot of effort. My approach is to blog whenever I've just completed some major task. I reasoned that if I've done all that work pursuing some aspect of photography, I may as well share it with others and when they respond I always learn something new. Quid Pro Quo kind of thing. :)
{snipped}


Thanks for the kind words! I just need the time to get more blogging done :)




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