I love my M4

[4X5B&W]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Bought my first Leica M in 1970.

At the time buying a Leica was a major expense for me, but picked up a used M2 and 50 Rigid for $235.......very expensive!

 

Today, I love my M240 and especially my Monochrom MM1. It gives images that are so reminiscent of shooting with my 1970 kit and Kodak Plus-X for beautiful B&W images.

 

When I had the opportunity I picked up a 1970 M4 to replace my M2, and the M4 and 50 Rigid is with me for life.

 

The M10 is certainly a move in the right direction, but an M11 the same size/weight as my M4 would be magic  

 

 

[philipus]

Well except that it wouldn't take film.

 

The M10 is certainly a move in the right direction, but an M11 the same size/weight as my M4 would be magic  

[Advertisement]

The Leica Q3 is available for pre-order at B&H Photo Video and Adorama

[geetee1972]

I just acquired an M4. Please can someone explain to me how the numbering system on the ISO dial works/is meant to be read. I know that DIN and ISO are differing standards but the ISO dial is oddly numbered compared to today's film speed and only goes up to 1300 - I'm guessing that was the limit of film speed 50 years ago when this camera was made? And what is the purpose of the flash and bulb on the dial (mirroring the PC connectors on the back)?

[wattsy]

I just acquired an M4. Please can someone explain to me how the numbering system on the ISO dial works/is meant to be read. I know that DIN and ISO are differing standards but the ISO dial is oddly numbered compared to today's film speed and only goes up to 1300 - I'm guessing that was the limit of film speed 50 years ago when this camera was made? And what is the purpose of the flash and bulb on the dial (mirroring the PC connectors on the back)?

 

 

I think you are correct that the ASA only goes up to 1300. As far as the symbols go they are also to help remind you what film is in the camera and are for B&W, daylight colour and tungsten colour. You use the appropriate pointer (adjacent to the symbol) to point to the film speed.

Edited March 1, 2017 by wattsy

[pico]

Wattsy suggested, and it is true, that the dial on the back of the M4 is there for you

to set to remind you of the film's ISO/ASA. It does not couple with the camera at all.

 

Ignore it if you wish.

.

[geetee1972]

Wattsy suggested, and it is true, that the dial on the back of the M4 is there for you

to set to remind you of the film's ISO/ASA. It does not couple with the camera at all.

 

Ignore it if you wish.

.

 

If it doesn't couple with the camera, what stops it from falling off?   Also, can you tell me though how I can change the metering though from spot to centre weighted please?

 

The film type indicator hadn't occured to me; can you even still buy tungsten balanced film? I'm sure you can still find it somewhere but I've not seen it in any of the main analogue focused retailers in London. 

Edited March 1, 2017 by geetee1972

[Michael Geschlecht]

Advertisement (gone after registration)

Hello Geetee,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

Ian is right. As usual.

 

What is on the back of the camera is a handy REMINDER dial. It does NOT connect to or actuate anything.

 

There is NO meter in an M4

 

What says "ASA" on your dial is today's ISO in its arithmitic form.

 

The "DIN" equivalents underneath are for "Deutche Industie Norm" which is the same range of speeds using a logarithmic form.

 

ASA 12 = DIN 12. After that things diverge exponentially.

 

ASA 25 = DIN 15, ASA 100 = DIN 21, ASA 400 = DIN 27. And so forth.

 

ASA 1300 = DIN 32 which was a very high film speed for 1967. The first year of the M4.

 

The 3 part circle in the center is a reminder. Sun symbol for using daylight film. Light bulb for using tungsten film & the black & white symbol for using black & white film. People generally position the film type in the camera symbol "up" for the type of film they are using. Then point the indicator for the film speed of the film in the camera to the appropriate film speed.

 

This way by looking at the back of the camera a person can tell the type of film & the film speed of the film in the camera.

 

You set these by pushing in on them gently & turning them until you get to the appropriate settings for the film type & film speed that you have in the camera.

 

The P.C. connectors (For Prontor - Compur) on the back take today's standard flash sockets.

 

On the back of the camera body the "lightning bolt" socket is for electronic flash & the "bulb" socket is for various bulbs under certain conditions. 

 

The lightning bolt on the shutter speed wheel on the top of the camera (1/50th of a second.) is the fastest speed that the electronic flash synchronizes with the shutter in an M4. You can also use electronic flash a slower shutter speeds.

 

Check the instruction book for what types of bulbs can be used when & how plugged into the "bulb" socket.

 

An M4 has a "cold shoe". There is no "hot shoe".

 

There are instructions in the M4 instruction book as to which can be used when & how.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 1, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Geetee,

 

Fuji used to make an ISO 64/19 tungsten slide film developable in standard E6 chemistry.

 

It might still be available.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[geetee1972]

Thankyou all for the responses and welcome. Indeed I am fully aware that my M4 is entirely a photographer's camera and as such needs me to tell it precisely what to do and to think for it (for example with ISO). Being only 44, my past experiences of film are limited to the times when everyone simply used 400 ISO upwards. And shooting with MF, you can use 3200 with excellent results and still very little film grain compared to 35mm. I was simply surprised that the indicated speeds on the reminder were so oddly labelled and so limited by today's standards (even by the standards of the 1980s). The bulb socket is new to me but not something I anticipate using.

 

If anyone is interested in the kinds of things I'll be using it for you can look at my website; www.tearsinrain.co.uk

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Geetee,

 

I think that the choice of which actual numbers to put on the dial where was determined by the way the various numbers "fit" in the small space available on the dial.

 

Some of the film speeds that were commonly available when the M4 was released in 1967 were: 25/15, 32/16, 50/18, 64/19, 125/22, 160/23, 400,27.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited March 1, 2017 by Michael Geschlecht

[otto.f]

Thankyou all for the responses and welcome. Indeed I am fully aware that my M4 is entirely a photographer's camera and as such needs me to tell it precisely what to do and to think for it (for example with ISO). Being only 44, my past experiences of film are limited to the times when everyone simply used 400 ISO upwards. And shooting with MF, you can use 3200 with excellent results and still very little film grain compared to 35mm. I was simply surprised that the indicated speeds on the reminder were so oddly labelled and so limited by today's standards (even by the standards of the 1980s). The bulb socket is new to me but not something I anticipate using.

If anyone is interested in the kinds of things I'll be using it for you can look at my website; www.tearsinrain.co.uk

Very good work and website! very humanistic

[geetee1972]

Very good work and website! very humanistic

Thank you. Being honest I am always in so much doubt if my work is any good that any degree of positive feedback means the world to me.

[maddoc2003jp]

 

by Gabor Samjeske, on Flickr

[otto.f]

 

by Gabor Samjeske, on Flickr

You make good street photography with that !

[maddoc2003jp]

You make good street photography with that !

Thank you!

[geetee1972]

First roll of film back from the M4 and the results are disappointing. Either they are way over exposed, probably by around two stops, or the scanning process has been done very poorly. The camera needed the range finder patch adjusting horizontally but I suspect it needs the shutter speeds servicing as well.

 

James Vans by Greg Turner, on Flickr

 

Ethan by Greg Turner, on Flickr

 

Friendship by Greg Turner, on Flickr

[pico]

If it doesn't couple with the camera, what stops it from falling off?   Also, can you tell me though how I can change the metering though from spot to centre weighted please?

 

The film type indicator hadn't occured to me; can you even still buy tungsten balanced film? I'm sure you can still find it somewhere but I've not seen it in any of the main analogue focused retailers in London. 

 

Oh, what a cute troll you are. But we have better. Don't be discouraged.

Black & White ISOs are reported at tungsten. Don't ya hate it?

Edited March 7, 2017 by pico

[Michael Geschlecht]

First roll of film back from the M4 and the results are disappointing. Either they are way over exposed, probably by around two stops, or the scanning process has been done very poorly. The camera needed the range finder patch adjusting horizontally but I suspect it needs the shutter speeds servicing as well.

 

James Vans by Greg Turner, on Flickr

 

Ethan by Greg Turner, on Flickr

 

Friendship by Greg Turner, on Flickr

 

Hello Greg,

 

Nice photos whatever the exposure.

 

By the way what kind of meter did you meter these photos with & how did you do your metering?

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

[geetee1972]

 

Oh, what a cute troll you are.

 

I was being deliberately cheeky and I do understand why the original instruction around the camera not having an ISO setting came about (there was a similar thread elsewhere I think). I hope no offence was taken I meant it in good spirit.

 

 

Nice photos whatever the exposure.

 

By the way what kind of meter did you meter these photos with & how did you do your metering?

 

Michael, thank you for the reassurance and complement. I use a Sekonic Flashmate for metering. It's basic but perfectly serviceable and I've used it for about a year with my Hasselblad for MF film photography. These subjects are all part of my ongoing project looking at the transition from youth to adulthood. I shoot in B&W for a number of reasons, one of which is the simple fact that colour doesn't play much of a role in the subjects' dress code. They don't tend to wear any colour, let alone bright colour, I think because that would be a very bold statement and bold statements when you're this age are risky. They're all trying to figure out exactly who they are and they aren't quite sure enough of that yet to feel comfortable with bold statements.

 

This makes exposures tricky especially when you're exopsing for the blacks rather than the highlights. I've got used to the one or two stops of lattitude that you get with MF film and suspect that having not shot 35mm film for a long time, I've forgotten you don't have quite so much lattitude. Adding half a stop or so to a camera that might be maybe 20% out on its exposure times is pushing me over I think.

[Advertisement]

Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[Michael Geschlecht]

Hello Greg,

 

Given that your subjects are right near you: Have you ever given any thought to incident metering?

Incident metering is relatively fast & is usually reasonably accurate.

 

Another thought: Which film were you using & what ISO was it set at?

Best Regards,

 

Michael