6.BIT code for Leica Summilux 35 PRE-Asph?

[sg.eson]

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I have previously had a post here regardning the appropriate 6-BIT code for the Voigtlander 35/1,2 Nokton. I read recently in Reidreviews, that the Summilux 35 PRE-Ashp seems to work best for this particular Voigtlander lens. I have also contacted Sean Reid and this is the recommendation he gives. But he has chosen the code from the M9 menu, and would like to permanently code the lens with this particular code. I can´t find the code itself anywhere, even though it must exist since it can be chosen from the menu.

Can someone please help me with this? My lens is with Don Goldberg for the coding work, and I am just waiting to find this appropriate code for it.

[Elk]

Don´t know wether this is absolutely spot on. But with the lenses I´ve checked it´s ok.

Leica M Lens Codes

Give it a try prehaps.

Regards from Sweden

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[adan]

There has never been a 6-bit code assigned for the 35 f/1.4 pre-ASPH. (Nor, for that matter, for several other lenses that appear in the M9 lens menu - e.g. the 135 f/4 and 135 f/3.4)

 

It is rational to assume that one "must exist since it can be chosen from the menu" - but incorrect.

 

There is, within the M8 and M9 firmware, a database of 6-bit codes, which are used to translate a code read by the sensors into an identified lens. And there is another database (in the M9 only) which directly identifies the lens by name.

 

In other words, the menu is not a way of manually selecting a 6-bit code - it BYPASSES the whole 6-bit code process altogether.

 

Most lenses are in both databases, but some are in only the 6-bit code database (18mm f/3.4 or 21 Summilux), and some are in only the name database (35 f/1.4 pre, 135 f/4).

 

Specific to the 35 f/1.4 preASPH, Leica has never supported it with a 6-bit code, mostly because it has a different mount flange** that is not as easy to replace as those on most recent M lenses (and has not been made for a decade). And many samples of the lens would not mount or focus to infinity on the M8, which was the original intended target of the 6-bit code process. Leica posted a list of older lenses that could be converted for 6-bit codes, and the 35 'lux preASPH was not on it.

 

**Since your lens is away, I post this link to an image of the 35 preASPH (left)

 

http://kenrockwell.com/konica/hexar-rf/images/35mm/D3S_0121-1200.jpg

 

The lens mount has a much thicker silver ring (with red dot attached) than other Leica M lenses since 1980 or thereabouts - and more importantly, it is not attached by 5-6 screws through the back, and thus is not as easily (read - inexpensively) replaced with a coded mount.

 

Personally, I got a 35 'lux pre-ASPH last year for the M9, and mostly used it without even bothering with the menu (I got rid of it because of flare and the 1-meter close-focus limit). There was a slight blue shift on the sides, often not visible at all. I found that the corrections for the 35 Summicron pre-ASPH were about the same as those for the 'lux (of course you get the wrong lens name in the EXIF data). The 'cron 6-bit code is 000110.

Edited August 10, 2010 by adan

[01af]

Nor, for that matter, for several other lenses that appear in the M9 lens menu - e.g. the 135 f/4 and 135 f/3.4. It is rational to assume that one "must exist since it can be chosen from the menu"—but incorrect.

Not incorrect but spot-on. Of course there are codes assigned to the 135 mm lenses mentioned above—otherwise they wouldn't appear in the menu of manually selectable lenses.

 

The 6-bit code for the Tele-Elmar and Tele-Elmar-M 135 mm 1:4 lenses is 39 (100111), and the code for the Apo-Telyt-M 135 mm 1:3.4 lens is 9 (001001).

 

As far as I know, the spherical Summilux 35 mm 1:1.4 has no code assigned and consequently, cannot be selected from the menu.

 

 

And there is another database (in the M9 only) which directly identifies the lens by name. In other words, the menu is not a way of manually selecting a 6-bit code—it BYPASSES the whole 6-bit code process altogether.

Not true. Are you making up all those fairy-tales yourself or did you read it somewhere? Actually, selecting a lens from the menu simply selects a 6-bit code indeed. As a matter of fact, there are absolutely no lens names involved altogether, just 6-bit lens codes and 2-bit frameline codes.

 

 

Leica posted a list of older lenses that could be converted for 6-bit codes, and the 35 'lux pre-Asph was not on it.

See? There is no 6-bit code for the spherical Summilux 35 mm, as simple as that. Coding a lens just means to put the six black and white patches on the bayonet flange; there is absolutely no conversion involved beyond that.

 

Some (not all) models of the spherical Summilux 35 mm, in their original state, cannot be used on the M8 and M9 but can be modified by Customer Service to fit these bodies. However this has nothing to do with coding; even modified spherical Summilux 35 mm lenses cannot be coded.

[sg.eson]

I do not have a M9 here with me, so can not check whether the Summilux 35 pre-Asph can be chosen in the menu or not. But the answer from Sean Reid was that he indeed chose the code for this particular lens from the M9 lens-menu, and found it gave the best result when using the Voigtlander 35/1,2. He has also reported this in the test of fast 35mm lenses for the M9 in Reidreviews, and there he has also shown the result concerning illumination etc with this choice of code. So, this makes me beleve that

1) the Summilux 35 pre-Ashp exists in the lens-menu of the M9, and

2) there is a specific black-white 6-BIT code for this lens, which can be used for teh Voigtlander 35/1,2.

Sean Reid has a very good reputation as a reviewer and photographer, and I trust his word.

 

Besides, the fact that the Summilux 35 pre-Asph has a somewhat different lens mount should not be a hindrance for milling 6-BIT code recesses and paint a black-white code in them. There are photos (on this forum?) of people who have done this without problems. You just have to unmount the flange ring in another way.

 

I have now written to Leica Germany concerning this, and will report back when/if I get an answer.

[michael_b_elmer]

There is a code for the pre-asph SX 35 in the manual settings menu of the M9.

 

This earlier thread answers your questions, I think:

 

http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/102643-how-code-pre-asph-35mm-summilux.html

[lars_bergquist]

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There is an entry for the lens in the camera's lens recognition menu.That does not mean that there exists a six-bit bar code for it. A menu entry and a code is NOT the same thing.

 

The old man from the Age of the Enigma Codes

[jaapv]

Which does not preclude trying any of the other 35 mm codes. I doubt they do much anyway in the realm of image correction. The main purpose will be to get it in EXIF, so any Summilux 35 code will do.

[adan]

@01af - according to the code list linked to in post #2

 

the code 100111 (39) is assigned to the Macro-Elmar-M 90 f/4, and the code 001001 (9) is assigned to the 135 f/2.8 Elmarit-M. There are photographs of the coding on those lenses included on that page.

 

If you want to call someone else's post "a fairy tale", it helps if you don't reveal glaring and obvious gaps in your own knowledge.

 

Ooops!

[russell]

Adan usually has pretty good and helpful information I've found. His posts usually stand the test of time.

 

But to be honest I am still waiting for final word that there is no proper 6-bit code for the pre-asph 35mm lux.

I think it'll take someone to manually paint white/back all the 2^6 possibilities on a lens mount and see what shows up in the EXIF.

I'm stubborn and will only accept that kind of research into the problem!

 

Not satisfied yet

[adan]

Russell, I agree (and I don't mean your first sentence ) that an empirical experimental approach would be the most telling evidence one way or the other.

 

I look forward to seeing what Leica has to say, if anything, in response to sg.eson's query.

[mby]

See here: Panasonic Tags

 

Panasonic LensInfo Tags

 

Index Tag Name Writable Values / Notes

0 LensType int32u [Mask 0xfffffffc]

--> Panasonic LensType Values

0.1 FrameSelector int32u [Mask 0x03]

0x1 = 28/90mm frame lines engaged

0x2 = 24/35mm frame lines engaged

0x3 = 50/75mm frame lines engaged

 

 

 

Panasonic LensType Values

 

Entries with 2 numbers give the lower 2 bits of the LensType value which are used to identify certain manually coded lenses on the M9, or the focal length of some multi-focal lenses.

Value LensType

1 = Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8

3 = Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 (III)

4 = Tele-Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8 (II)

5 = Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 (II)

6 = Summicron-M 35mm f/2 (IV)

7 = Summicron-M 90mm f/2 (II)

9 = Elmarit-M 135mm f/2.8 (I/II)

16 = Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH.

23 = Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (III)

24 = Elmarit-M 21mm f/2.8 ASPH.

25 = Elmarit-M 24mm f/2.8 ASPH.

26 = Summicron-M 28mm f/2 ASPH.

27 = Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 (IV)

28 = Elmarit-M 28mm f/2.8 ASPH.

29 = Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPH.

30 = Summicron-M 35mm f/2 ASPH.

31 = Noctilux-M 50mm f/1

32 = Summilux-M 50mm f/1.4 ASPH.

33 = Summicron-M 50mm f/2 (IV, V)

34 = Elmar-M 50mm f/2.8

35 = Summilux-M 75mm f/1.4

36 = Apo-Summicron-M 75mm f/2 ASPH.

37 = Apo-Summicron-M 90mm f/2 ASPH.

38 = Elmarit-M 90mm f/2.8

39 = Macro-Elmar-M 90mm f/4

40 = Macro-Adapter M

42 = Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm f/4 ASPH.

43 = Summarit-M 35mm f/2.5

44 = Summarit-M 50mm f/2.5

45 = Summarit-M 75mm f/2.5

46 = Summarit-M 90mm f/2.5

47 = Summilux-M 21mm f/1.4 ASPH.

48 = Summilux-M 24mm f/1.4 ASPH.

49 = Noctilux-M 50mm f/0.95 ASPH.

50 = Elmar-M 24mm f/3.8 ASPH.

52 = Super-Elmar-M 18mm f/3.8 ASPH.

'0 0' = Uncoded lens

'6 0' = Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4

'9 0' = Apo-Telyt-M 135mm f/3.4

'16 1' = Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH. (at 16mm)

'16 2' = Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH. (at 18mm)

'16 3' = Tri-Elmar-M 16-18-21mm f/4 ASPH. (at 21mm)

'29 0' = Summilux-M 35mm f/1.4 ASPHERICAL

'31 0' = Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.2

'39 0' = Tele-Elmar-M 135mm f/4 (II)

'42 1' = Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm f/4 ASPH. (at 28mm)

'42 2' = Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm f/4 ASPH. (at 35mm)

'42 3' = Tri-Elmar-M 28-35-50mm f/4 ASPH. (at 50mm)

[01af]

There is a code for the pre-asph SX 35 in the manual settings menu of the M9.

Oh yes, there is. Why didn't I see it before? So please forget what I wrote in my previous post; of course there is a code for the spherical Summilux and Summilux-M 35 mm 1:1.4—and it is 6 (000110), in conjunction with frameline code 0 (00).

 

I am afraid that lens codes which go with frameline code 0 are not available as a 6-bit bar code pattern on the bayonet flange (and never will be) but must always be selected from the menu. The lens code 6 is shared with the spherical Summicron 35 mm 1:2 (but I don't know the frameline code for this one—except it can't be zero).

 

 

A menu entry and a code are NOT the same thing.

Actually they are, basically—any menu selection transforms into a lens code internally (and not into a lens name as Andy tries to make us believe). Still you're right, indeed a menu entry does not necessarily mean there was a bar code pattern also.

 

 

According to the code list linked to in post #2, the code 100111 (39) is assigned to the Macro-Elmar-M 90 mm f/4, and the code 001001 (9) is assigned to the Elmarit-M 135 mm f/2.8. There are photographs of the coding on those lenses included on that page.

That list is correct but incomplete. Some codes are shared between several lenses, and the frameline code is used to tell the lenses with the same lens code from each other.

 

 

If you want to call someone else's post "a fairy tale", it helps if you don't reveal glaring and obvious gaps in your own knowledge.

I still call your posts on this topic "fairy tales" because they are. I try to close the gaps in my knowledges as fast as I can. The fact that there are a few in my knowledge doesn't mean there weren't any in yours.

[rickp13]

coded as a summilux 35 asph

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[01af]

I have developed a theory about Leica's shared 6-bit lens codes. Perhaps someone can verify or falsify it ...

 

To the camera, a lens is identified by the 6-bit lens code and the 2-bit frameline code. The frameline code is entered by two mechanical on-off micro-switches. In one end position of the frameline selector, one switch is off and the other is on (OL = 1 = 28/90); in the other end position one is on and the other is off (LO = 2 = 35/135); and in the intermediate position both switches are on (LL = 3 = 50/75). I shall denote binary digits with the letters O and L rather than the digits 0 and 1, to avoid confusion of binary two or three with decimal ten or eleven.

 

So it's impossible to select the frameline code OO = 0 via the frameline selection mechanism.

 

Well. Leica has decided not to provide some lenses with 6-bit code patterns, as these lenses are not fully compatible or not recommended for use with the digital Leica M cameras. These lenses include the spherical Summilux and Summilux-M 35 mm lenses and all 135 mm lenses. Still, these lenses can be selected from the M9's manual lens selection menu so they do need codes. In order to save code points (as there are only 63 of them, and they must last for a while even when new lenses get developed), we can share codes between lenses. Two or more lenses with the same code, in theory, can be distinguished by their frameline codes, provided they do use different frameline pairs. In practice, however, the user can always select a different pair of framelines using the frameline lever, screwing up proper lens identification.

 

So ... the only frameline code that allows to reliably distinguish two lenses with the same lens code is zero—the impossible code. So for a lens with a shared lens code, the frameline code must be either zero or non-zero. And it can be zero only when the code is entered via the lens selection menu; in this case the frameline selector is bypassed and the zero value gets directly entered into the electronics. This however can work only for lenses that will get identified by menu selection only and never by a 6-bit code pattern on the bayonet flange. So the lens with a non-zero frameline code might be considered the primary lens carrying the given lens code (and may carry the respective 6-bit code pattern on the bayonet), and the one with frameline code zero is the secondary or alternate lens with the same lens code (and cannot carry the 6-bit code pattern on the bayonet).

 

I am aware of four lenses that Leica refuses to provide with 6-bit code patterns and that can only be selected via the manual lens selection menu:

 

• Summilux/Summilux-M 35 mm 1:1.4 (code 6-0)
  
• Elmarit-M 135 mm 1:2.8 (code 9-2)
  
• Apo-Telyt-M 135 mm 1:3.4 (code 9-0)
  
• Tele-Elmar/TeleElmar-M 135 mm 1:4 (code 39-0)
  

The lens code 6 is shared with the Summicron/Summicron-M 35 mm 1:2 (code 6-2). The lens code 39 is shared with the Macro-Elmar-M 90 mm 1:4 (code 39-1). It's strange that with the faster 135 mm lenses carrying the lens code 9, the current Apo-Telyt-M is considered the alternate lens and the long-discontinued Elmarit-M is considered the primary lens. I guess someone at Leica has screwed it up at an early stage, and then it wasn't possible anymore to correct the mistake after the fact. It's like Microsoft software—mistakes turn into industry standards

 

And yes, it's a shame that Leica considers the 135 mm lenses non-codable! While it did make some sense for the M8/M8.2, it doesn't for the M9 and possibly future digital M models. They should really re-think their strategy for the 135 mm lenses

Edited August 11, 2010 by 01af

[chris_tribble]

And yes, it's a shame that Leica considers the 135 mm lenses non-codable! While it did make some sense for the M8/M8.2, it doesn't for the M9 and possibly future digital M models. They should really re-think their strategy for the 135 mm lenses

 

+1 - it's such a frustration not having auto-recognition for the 135 Apo-telyt - it's convenient! I've written several times to Leica and have simply hit stone walls.

[mby]

(...) I am aware of four lenses that Leica refuses to provide with 6-bit code patterns and that can only be selected via the manual lens selection menu:

 

• Summilux/Summilux-M 35 mm 1:1.4 (code 6-0)
  
• Elmarit-M 135 mm 1:2.8 (code 9-2)
  
• Apo-Telyt-M 135 mm 1:3.4 (code 9-0)
  
• Tele-Elmar/TeleElmar-M 135 mm 1:4 (code 39-0)
  

 

There are five, you forgot the Noctilux-M 50mm f/1.2 (see list posted above); the decoding was solved some time ago via experiments for EXIFtool.

 

Best,

Michael

 

P.S.: Apparently the M9 never stores the actual setting of the frameline selector but just the recommended setting (which is different form the M8 behavior).

Edited August 11, 2010 by mby
Added comment on frame selector

[01af]

There are five, you forgot the Noctilux-M 50 mm f/1.2 (see list posted above); the decoding was solved some time ago via experiments for EXIFtool.

Oh yes, indeed—the old Noctilux 50 mm 1:1.2 ... it has the code 31-0 which makes it the alternate lens to the Noctilux-M 50 mm 1:1 (code 31-3). And if my theory is right then Leica will never apply the 011111 code pattern to the Noctilux 50 mm 1:1.2's bayonet ... (and even if they did, the camera wouldn't accept it).

 

The whole 6-bit-lens-code-and-2-bit-frameline-code stuff is poorly designed and seriously flawed. Too bad Leica has started to dumb down their products in an attempt to make them fool-proof ... which never works 'cause fools will always be fools, and photographers only get annoyed

Edited August 11, 2010 by 01af

[ramarren]

Forgive me for raising this old thread from the dead... Just another point of input.

 

I just had my 'Lux 35 v2 outfitted with the six-bit code by DAG. I noticed that it brought up the Lux 35 ASPH code in EXIF, so I tested it while I was shooting on Saturday with paired exposures by shooting with the M-P on Automatic for one shot then manually choosing the pre-ASPH code for a second shot. Aside from the lens name in the EXIF, I can find no difference between the resulting two exposures. So, while it would be convenient for lens identification purposes to have a dedicated code for the pre-ASPH, it makes no difference to the images that I can see. 

 

"Close enough occasionally applies to more than horseshoes."    

Edited January 11, 2016 by ramarren

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Hallo,

Look here: Leica M

[jdlaing]

Manually selecting or selected by automatic reading the six bit code shouldn't show a different result. The camera still thinks it's the same lens.