M9 Battery

[squarenegs]

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If we are going into a list -

 

6 DMR batteries (2 stored in the fridge)

3 Digilux 2/3 batteries

6 M8/9 batteries

2 DLux 4 batteries

 

All working as specified.

 

- and four other brand M8 batteries - all broken within half a year..

 

Jaap

 

I've seen a similar discussion (and added my two cents worth) on another thread about the merits of 3rd party batteries. The verdict there: Don't waste your money!

 

However, I have a question for you. You mention keeping your DMR batteries in the fridge. I know that it's a good idea, as with film, to store non-rechargeables e.g. alkalines at low temperatures as it slows the chemical processes taking place.

But why does it matter with a rechargeable cell where, it is my understanding, the

cell is reactivated when charged? Sorry if I've missed something obvious but my

chemistry is limited to high school and art college. There it was strictly on a

'need to know' basis.

 

Regards

 

Sam

[wparsonsgisnet]

Roger, I agree with your post in full.

 

In particular, I found the M8 particularly sensitive to low battery charge -- such that I always replace the battery when the last 1/3 segment shows. When the battery is low in the M8 it behaves in an "improper" fashion.

 

I have been following the same practice in the M9 -- but have a sense that the hardware is less sensitive than that of the M8. this is a friendly sensation and not the result of blind testing. hahaha.

 

Regards,

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[stephengilbert]

Genuine Leica batteries must be good; they sell for over $200. GENUINE LEICA Leica Li-ion Battery for M8 & M9 - eBay (item 350320192817 end time Apr-22-10 22:54:59 PDT)

 

The battery question I have is where can I buy one? I haven't seen any in stock at reputable dealers for more than a month, and suspect it's been longer than that.

[jaapv]

Sarn, Li-Ion batteries deteriorate even when not in use. So I stored a couple in the fridge to slow the process, as the supply of those batteries seems to be uncertain. I know Leica had to get rid of their stock because of this effect and are awaiting new ones.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jaap

 

I've seen a similar discussion (and added my two cents worth) on another thread about the merits of 3rd party batteries. The verdict there: Don't waste your money!

 

However, I have a question for you. You mention keeping your DMR batteries in the fridge. I know that it's a good idea, as with film, to store non-rechargeables e.g. alkalines at low temperatures as it slows the chemical processes taking place.

But why does it matter with a rechargeable cell where, it is my understanding, the

cell is reactivated when charged? Sorry if I've missed something obvious but my

chemistry is limited to high school and art college. There it was strictly on a

'need to know' basis.

 

Regards

 

Sam

 

Jaap and Sam,

 

I always keep alkaline's in the freezer (note: freezer), but I keep all my lithium batteries in the camera bag, merely rotating them.

 

I did note that when left in the bag for a LONG time (6 months, in my case) that they lost considerable charge. I don't know if they would have done so in the freezer, but it's hard to reach my freezer when I'm on the road and, as noted many times here, my assistant is exceeding stupid and will forget to retrieve batteries from the freezer.

[wparsonsgisnet]

Sarn, Li-Ion batteries deteriorate even when not in use. So I stored a couple in the fridge to slow the process, as the supply of those batteries seems to be uncertain. I know Leica had to get rid of their stock because of this effect and are awaiting new ones.

 

Japp, is there more to the story of the Leica-owned battery stock? How long were these batteries idle?

[jaapv]

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I wouldn't know - this is the story as I got it from Leica. Given the small number of DMRs I would guess it was the original stock.

[dutchman]

To Jaap,

 

"I know Leica had to get rid of their stock because of this effect and are awaiting new ones."

 

Could this have been a possible explanation for the problem the original poster was referring to ?

 

PS; refrigeration seems logical with a non-rechargeable battery that is based on an irreversible chemical process.

In rechargeable cells it only slows down the (revesible) process of self discharge

 

PS2: don't get me wrong in this " overheated thread" : I highly regard your opinions an have found many of your answers/solutions very useful for me as a beginning Leica enthousiast

[adan]

1) The original question about whether we will all end up with cameras sitting on the shelves is a good one - in the long term. All Li-ion batteries will wear out eventually (about 300 recharge cycles is one estimate I've seen), and as mentioned, they will also wear out if not used (shelf-life/refrigeration). So without a continuous supply (like film), sooner or later all Li-ion powered devices will become paperweights.

 

2) I am using a new (M9) Leica battery and a 4-year-old M8 battery in my M9 - so far neither has shown any weakness, let alone failure.

 

3) @ glennerolrd - "I think the original poster had a legitimate question about battery reliability. Really do we need the immediate 10 posts about how your battery never failed?"

 

Reliability is a statistical question. Not "How many have failed?" but "What percentage have failed?" Limiting this thread to just those people with battery failures is like limiting an election to only the votes cast by one party.

 

If we hear from 5 people who have had battery failures and 95 people who have not had battery failures, that is one statistical picture. If we hear only from the 5 people who've had failures, that is a different (and inaccurate) statistical picture.

Edited April 21, 2010 by adan

[pgk]

OK here's my experience.

 

4 x M8 (Leica) batteries - no problems at all and some ~2.5 years old.

 

2 x 5D batteries (Canon) ~ 3 years old no problems and I can't tell them apart in terms of performance.

 

2 x 5D2 batteries (Canon) ~ 1 year old no problems.

 

However I had a Canon 10D bought used along with 1 x Canon battery and 1 x (named) non-Canon battery, which blew its power input circuit with the non-Canon battery resulting in a costly repair (for that camera).

 

So in my (limited) experience, the more expensive manufacturer's own batteries can actually be cheaper. My statistics was never brilliant, but after the 10D experience I only use 'own brand batteries' now. Given the original price of any of these cameras I simply don't see the point of skimping on the price of batteries and I always buy 2 when I first buy the camera.

[andybarton]

Apologies for the slight break in transmission on this thread

 

I have had a good "tidy up", as regular viewers will have already realised and for reasons which need no explanation. Apologies if any of your own particular posts have been lost, but it's actually very difficult to delete 22 posts without leaving some orphans and slight oddities.

[jaapv]

To Jaap,

 

"I know Leica had to get rid of their stock because of this effect and are awaiting new ones."

 

Could this have been a possible explanation for the problem the original poster was referring to ?

 

PS; refrigeration seems logical with a non-rechargeable battery that is based on an irreversible chemical process.

In rechargeable cells it only slows down the (revesible) process of self discharge

 

PS2: don't get me wrong in this " overheated thread" : I highly regard your opinions an have found many of your answers/solutions very useful for me as a beginning Leica enthousiast

 

 

Have a look here:

 

http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm

[wparsonsgisnet]

Jaap, nice and informative article. thanks.

 

I had not noted before the likely failure at 2-3 years.

 

I have not seen this in my Leica batteries -- nor for the Li-ion battery for my Mikita power drill. I have 2 batteries for this and one has just failed -- after more than 10 years. As a "photographer" (!) I assure you that this tool sits idle prolonged periods of time. Even under strain of long sits, it took 10 years for 1 of the 2 batteries to fail.

 

I'd say this is a pretty good record for Li-ion batteries.

 

Nevertheless, the recent shortage of Leica M-batteries caused me to buy 2 batteries to offset a future problem. I didn't want to be out of stock.

 

Funny business, this digital photography. I am a system admin, inventory manager, repairman (printers and the like), and occasional user of cameras. It's really a lot of fun, not exactly like going to the freezer for some rolls of film.

[Doc Henry]

Hi All,

For me, 3 batteries (M8) since August 2009

3 batteries (M9) since March 2010

all from Leica (90 Euros each battery)

No problem with those batteries !

 

Short article interesting for you :

Lithium ion battery

 

Interesting excerpts from the article:

"Unlike nickel based rechargeable batteries (NiCd and NiMH), Li ion batteries should be charged early and often. However, if they are not used for a longer time, they should be brought to a charge level of around 40%.

 

Li ion batteries should be kept cool. Ideally they are stored in a fridge. However, they should not freeze. Aging will take its toll much faster at high temperatures. Keeping them in burning hot cars can kill lithium ion batteries.

 

Buy Li ion batteries only when needed. Look at the manufacturing date. That is when the ageing process commenced."

Regards

Henry

Edited April 21, 2010 by Doc Henry

[glenerrolrd]

1) The original question about whether we will all end up with cameras sitting on the shelves is a good one - in the long term. All Li-ion batteries will wear out eventually (about 300 recharge cycles is one estimate I've seen), and as mentioned, they will also wear out if not used (shelf-life/refrigeration). So without a continuous supply (like film), sooner or later all Li-ion powered devices will become paperweights.

 

2) I am using a new (M9) Leica battery and a 4-year-old M8 battery in my M9 - so far neither has shown any weakness, let alone failure.

 

3) @ glennerolrd - "I think the original poster had a legitimate question about battery reliability. Really do we need the immediate 10 posts about how your battery never failed?"

 

Reliability is a statistical question. Not "How many have failed?" but "What percentage have failed?" Limiting this thread to just those people with battery failures is like limiting an election to only the votes cast by one party.

 

If we hear from 5 people who have had battery failures and 95 people who have not had battery failures, that is one statistical picture. If we hear only from the 5 people who've had failures, that is a different (and inaccurate) statistical picture.

 

Adan

 

I have found your posts to be insightful and you certainly have a wealth of information to share. I believe that you and many others read the OP too literally . Some context would have helped but I read it as frustration with the battery situation for m8/m9 .

 

Consider what I believe is somewhat agreed upon facts. (1) M8/M9 batteries have small capacities when compared to DSLR offers. If you shoot a lot your have to manage your capacity by having enough batteries. (2) It is believed that many of the camera lock ups ,corrupt cards etc may be caused by weak batteries ..generally the recommendation is try a fresh battery . Thats been my experience . (3) 3rd party batteries have been thought to be unreliable . (4) its darn hard to find a new M8/m9 battery and certainly don t think you can walk into any camera store and find one.

 

The poster saw a post that indicated even a Leica battery has failed and he asked whats going on ? Should I be concerned as it seems the battery situation could become a problem .

 

As to the need for good experiences ....I don t need to hear them unless they carry some weight of relevant experience. It good to know that your first M8 battery is still holding a charge as I know you use your equipment heavily. I have had 8 digital M s and as such relied upon the forum for insights into frequently incurred problems . Personally I am interested in understanding what people are struggling with not tabulating a frequency of repair statistic.

 

When my sensor glass cracked it was helpful to see for example that others had the same problem in the same spot . It wasn t caused by abuse and that Leica was handling it pretty well. Is it a common problem ...probably not but its not unique either. That thread had a number of comments about it being a rare situation and a few said directly that it must have been caused by a drop. Those comments were not made to inform but rather to defend .

 

Take a look at post #15 and please let me know if you find my advice inappropriate in any way.

[andalus]

I found a Leica M8/9 battery at the Pro Shop in West Palm Beach last weekend. In the box. Got it charged now.

[adan]

I hear you regarding the availability of spare batteries - tried to get one for my 5D the other week and no one had original Canon batteries, just "Promaster" or some such - and none at all for my Panny GH-1. That may be as much a problem of stores not wanting to carry inventory as it is a manufacturer problem, though. Which is one reason why I held on to my extra battery when I swapped the M8's for the M9 last fall.

[Ed_K]

It would be nice if the OP could provide some feedback over this conversation, kind of curious where he came across the failing issue of original Leica battery in the 1st place.

[zlatkob]

It would be nice if the OP could provide some feedback over this conversation, kind of curious where he came across the failing issue of original Leica battery in the 1st place.

He did, but his post has been deleted. I believe it was just one instance of a failing battery.

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Hallo,

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[stephengilbert]

If a post about battery failure is deleted, does that mean they don't fail? Gee, I hope so, as there seem to be none available for purchase.