bybrett Posted April 13, 2010 Share #41 Posted April 13, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) - Ah well - there was me thinking you'd have a rack of M9's in a velvet case Yes I too took about that number of goes before I was perfectly happy No I have a rack of screwdrivers. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Advertisement Posted April 13, 2010 Posted April 13, 2010 Hi bybrett, Take a look here M9 - coincidence at infinity. I'm sure you'll find what you were looking for!
bybrett Posted April 13, 2010 Share #42 Posted April 13, 2010 Well, that was frustrating I can't even find a screwdriver that will fit into the slot properly. I found a miniature ratchet I thought would be perfect (right angle and everything) but even it's too large and won't gain any purchase on the screw. So I don't think I've managed to do anything but reset my infinity focus and scratch the screw badly enough to void the warranty I just wish Leica would find a way to let us do this ourselves. Or recommend tools, or something. Julian, if you have a picture of the screwdriver you used, that would help us tool-challenged folks. Ah well. Slight front-focus (back focus for Wilson) at extremely close distances isn't, on balance, totally horrible. I just don't want to have to worry about it when I'm on a job, of course. @ Howard, certainly at Kindermann Gerry used to check 1M, 10M and infinity. But of course infinity was outside the building You need jewellers screwdrivers... and a magnifier. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
k-hawinkler Posted April 13, 2010 Share #43 Posted April 13, 2010 Well, that was frustrating I can't even find a screwdriver that will fit into the slot properly. I found a miniature ratchet I thought would be perfect (right angle and everything) but even it's too large and won't gain any purchase on the screw. So I don't think I've managed to do anything but reset my infinity focus and scratch the screw badly enough to void the warranty I just wish Leica would find a way to let us do this ourselves. Or recommend tools, or something. Julian, if you have a picture of the screwdriver you used, that would help us tool-challenged folks. Ah well. Slight front-focus (back focus for Wilson) at extremely close distances isn't, on balance, totally horrible. I just don't want to have to worry about it when I'm on a job, of course. @ Howard, certainly at Kindermann Gerry used to check 1M, 10M and infinity. But of course infinity was outside the building Jaap made this statement here post #2 of http://www.l-camera-forum.com/leica-forum/leica-m9-forum/121373-factory-m9-lens-rangefinder-focus-tolerances.html#post1289929 : I can only say that the proper way to test focus is with targets set up at 1m, 3, 10m and infinity. Yes, the focussing accuracy is dependent on focal length, with the widest lenses the most accurate. For a more in-depth explanation see Gunther Osterloh, Leica M- Advanced Photo School, pp 42-53 (in the English version - the German one might have slightly different page numbers, obvously) __________________ Jaap JaapVPhotography Cheers, K-H. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #44 Posted April 14, 2010 You need jewellers screwdrivers... and a magnifier. I have jeweller's screwdrivers--and a magnifier. Can't get enough purchase on the screw to loosen; if I file it there won't be enough screwdriver to contact screw. Others I have are too thick. Driving me a little nuts... As in nuts and bolts So I went shooting with my now infinity re-corrected 50 Lux and 75 Lux. The 75 in particular is pretty front-focused now wide open and close up; by f2 it's fine and a few feet back it's better, but it loses the stuff I like at 1.4 and 1.6. The 50 1.4 (bless it's little heart) is front focused but still has the point of focus in the focal field at, say, 1 meter. So I can shoot someone's eyes or collar and their mouth and nose will be in focus, which isn't a bad thing. The Nocti will be another matter; it's going to be off at 1m but on by 2... I guess I can live with that at f1.0 to 1.8...then it backfocuses as it stops down so that might actually be ok Don't get me wrong; I'm not going to ditch my 75 Lux or anything, it's just that at 1.4 it's a little less sharp than I'd like it... for example here focus is really tack sharp (as sharp as the 75 gets at 1.4) on my son's shirt, and not his eyes, but you'd never see that in a print at normal sizes, anyway.... Hmm. EXIF is wrong here... got the manual lens set to 50 1.4 Lux, but it's actually the 75 (front-focusing) Lux at 1.4 @ ISO 2000... Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/?do=findComment&comment=1293322'>More sharing options...
ho_co Posted April 14, 2010 Share #45 Posted April 14, 2010 ... But of course infinity was outside the building I'll drink to that! I mean, since we're leaving the building, let's hit the bar. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
pack_tor Posted April 14, 2010 Author Share #46 Posted April 14, 2010 Jamie - if you find a right tool, let me know. I'm in the GTA too and stuck in exactly your situation. The lenses are front focusing by a couple of inches but infinity is right. And, I have made enough marks on the screw that any Leica technician would know I've messed around with it. I don't want to use a non-functioning screwdriver and make the situation worse. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #47 Posted April 14, 2010 Advertisement (gone after registration) Jamie - if you find a right tool, let me know. I'm in the GTA too and stuck in exactly your situation. The lenses are front focusing by a couple of inches but infinity is right. And, I have made enough marks on the screw that any Leica technician would know I've messed around with it. I don't want to use a non-functioning screwdriver and make the situation worse. I hear you! Let's see what Julian says about what kind of screwdriver to us (I know that sounds absurd), and with any luck, we can get together at some point and celebrate our perfectly calibrated M9s... or drown our sorrows Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted April 14, 2010 Share #48 Posted April 14, 2010 (edited) Just a decent screwdriver with a good grip and then a very gentle angle filed on it.. The slope of the angle is just enough that when the driver is presented to the screw the fit is perfect. here is mine! If you use a tool like this it will unscrew fine. If you try to use an unfiled screwdriver it just won't work because you don't have even drive on the screw and you will damage the screwhead. Honestly the angle on the driver head makes that much difference. Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! Edited April 14, 2010 by Julian Thompson Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/?do=findComment&comment=1293482'>More sharing options...
Guest mc_k Posted April 14, 2010 Share #49 Posted April 14, 2010 I have read the same elsewhere, about two adjustments for the "gain" and "offset" of the rangefinder. It would be nice to have a service manual or similar to confirm. By this, the rangefinder is accurate at either 0, 1, or all distances. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted April 14, 2010 Share #50 Posted April 14, 2010 Forgot to say guys - the handle of the driver is really important. If you try to use a standard jewellers screwdriver you won't get the leverage. You need a fine screwdriver but with a big handle like mine so you can get plenty of torque on it. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
marknorton Posted April 14, 2010 Share #51 Posted April 14, 2010 Good info from Julian, thank you. That screw is certainly difficult to get at. In the M8, there's a plastic plug in the base of the lens throat which allows you to get at the screw with a long screwdriver through the bottom of the camera with the plastic base plate removed. Not so the M9 which is more awkward. As Julian says, the two lever arm adjustments do interact and there's some evidence that lenses with a steeply raked focussing cam such as the 18mm Super-Wide Elmar can cause problems with some cameras, possibly if the adjustment is at the limit. It's a pity that Leica could not devise a mechanism where the "gain" (lever arm length) and "offset" (roller position) were not completely independent of each other. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted April 14, 2010 Share #52 Posted April 14, 2010 Isn t there a 3rd variable in the digital M s .....the sensor placement. When we were calibrating my first M8 s ....the technician could not get both the 35 and 75 lux to match my M8. On the test body they both were good but on my M8 when he made the adjustments it was one or the other? He checked my M8 and found that the sensor placement was just out of the acceptable range . Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #53 Posted April 14, 2010 Isn t there a 3rd variable in the digital M s .....the sensor placement. When we were calibrating my first M8 s ....the technician could not get both the 35 and 75 lux to match my M8. On the test body they both were good but on my M8 when he made the adjustments it was one or the other? He checked my M8 and found that the sensor placement was just out of the acceptable range . Yes--when I had my M8 sensor replaced this was an issue originally. But something is out on my RF; I can't get the Lux 50 and the new (1.0) Nocti to agree on infinity in the RF... Both were adjusted by Solms last year. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #54 Posted April 14, 2010 (edited) Just a decent screwdriver with a good grip and then a very gentle angle filed on it.. The slope of the angle is just enough that when the driver is presented to the screw the fit is perfect. here is mine! If you use a tool like this it will unscrew fine. If you try to use an unfiled screwdriver it just won't work because you don't have even drive on the screw and you will damage the screwhead. Honestly the angle on the driver head makes that much difference. Hey Julian, So I got a new screwdriver and filed down the head this morning... a bit more than yours but still... Success!! The screw turned properly without too much force (though enough to see that this was set tight on purpose). So then I was totally dumbfounded since the arm would not move...not clockwise, not counterclockwise. I unscrewed the screw almost to the point of not having a screw there at all! The arm still would not move, it wouldn't flop around, nothing. I looked in my magnifier to see what was going on, and I didn't understand about the cam. I got it totally out of whack, and then the arm would either flop totally in the z-axis or lock up. Yikes! At this point I thought my rangefinder was toast. But then I remembered it's just a screw, after all So I took a much closer look and realized that by turning the cam--you did say this, and I just didn't get it--the arm would totally lengthen or shorten. Phew!! A few more "blind shortening" moments (actually about an hour) later, and voila!! Everything was looking much much better, across all my lenses. Even the discrepancy between my Nocti and my 50 Lux at infinity is pretty much totally gone. I don't know how that happened, I'm just glad it did! So I wouldn't recommend anybody do this if you're as non-tool aware as I am, and I'd never do this on someone else's M. There were some truly heart-stopping moments and I have to say the force used to loosen the screw was certainly enough to go right through the shutter curtain if I had slipped (I didn't).. But it certainly can be done Reading comprehension is apparently the key here! So thanks very much all-round!! Edited April 14, 2010 by Jamie Roberts 2 Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #55 Posted April 14, 2010 Update-- Now that I've "got" what I supposed to do, this is not quite so scary And I've spent more time with the cam, and right now I'm particularly pleased with where my whole range of lenses is right now, including the problematic Nocti and 90 cron . The differences are tiny mechanically but they make a huge difference overall. Thanks Julian--and everyone else. Who knew it was so easy to file a screw-driver? Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted April 14, 2010 Share #56 Posted April 14, 2010 Indeed - well done Jamie that's excellent work! You see the problem though - it's so hard to describe the procedure and then, once you 'get it' it's just not a problem. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Julian Thompson Posted April 14, 2010 Share #57 Posted April 14, 2010 The filing of the screwdriver trick really was the key. One of my better moments Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #58 Posted April 14, 2010 Indeed - well done Jamie that's excellent work! You see the problem though - it's so hard to describe the procedure and then, once you 'get it' it's just not a problem. Absolutely, it's a really tough thing to describe. It doesn't help, of course, that all the parts are black either... Even your excellent diagrams threw me a bit because at one point I was mistaking the cam for the roller and so adjusting the wrong way LOL! But with the exception of the Noctilux, which is still out a tiny bit in the RF at infinity, all my other lenses--28 cron, 35 lux, 50 lux, 75 lux and 90 cron--are all performing better than ever at 1m, 20m and infinity--even wide open! One thing I did notice is just how much some of the lenses shift focus as they stop down, and they weren't always the ones I thought... The 28 cron ASPH and 50 lux ASPH are best throughout the range. Point of focus almost doesn't budge as you stop down. And stopped down, they're so sharp you really can't tell. The 35 Lux does focus shift, so I was particularly pleased that I could get the shift within the DOF as you stop down at all distances. The 75 Lux also focus shifts, and goes from (subject plane) front focus to the point of focus travelling back. But like the 35 Lux it's still within focal field except for minimum focus distance from 1.4 to 2.8. That's fine with me. The 90 cron (pre-asph) was a big surprise. It's like the Lux only a little more so, though by f2.8 it's now very good throughout the range. And the Nocti? Ah, my Nocti is on at f1.0 and off by f1.8 at close range it gets worse to f4 and then is ok again. At 10m the "off range" is f2-f3.2... so I think I'll see if I can get it adjusted... But since it's still really quite "good" at 1.0 to 1.6 I might not Here's how the 50 lux looks...all 100% crops with no sharpening. 0.8m: Welcome, dear visitor! As registered member you'd see an image here… Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1m 20m Infinity / horizon (through glass): I can live with this... thanks so much!! Quote Link to post Share on other sites Simply register for free here – We are always happy to welcome new members! 1m 20m Infinity / horizon (through glass): I can live with this... thanks so much!! ' data-webShareUrl='https://www.l-camera-forum.com/topic/118043-m9-coincidence-at-infinity/?do=findComment&comment=1294222'>More sharing options...
glenerrolrd Posted April 14, 2010 Share #59 Posted April 14, 2010 Julian Jamie Great thread. It is unbelievably helpful to see the diagrams and the test images. Calibrating a 50 summilux is the ultimate test ( I believe because it has a short throw and steep cam). One trick I learned in replacing a small electric switch on my car (which needed a small jewelers screw driver) was to wrap the handle of the screw driver(tightly) with gaffer tape to build up the grip. Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie Roberts Posted April 14, 2010 Share #60 Posted April 14, 2010 Hey Roger, that screwdriver tape trick was next for me if I couldn't get enough purchase on the screw... but in the end everything worked out ok. I forgot to mention (but it's probably obvious) that the shots100% crops I posted of the "calibrated" system with the 50 Lux ASPH are all at f1.4 as well. Stopping down just makes things much sharper Quote Link to post Share on other sites More sharing options...
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