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Burning Curtains and other Beginner Questions


Scotto

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I'm new to Leica's but eagerly awaiting the delivery of an M3.

 

I have read a lot of stories about curtains developing holes in them due the sun flashing into the lens. How much of this is true and how long would it take to create a hole?

 

The reason that I ask is that I like to take my cameras with me everywhere I go. I'm not the type that hides his camera under his coat, or keeps it in a Styrofoam case. When I leave my house, the lens cap goes directly in my pocket. I wanted to know if this is going to be a problem, when the camera is hanging over my shoulder.

 

I have been shooting a Pentax DSLR with an M 50/1.7 (which is a bullet-proof setup), but I wanted something wider, smaller, simpler, film, and overall more Leica-ish.

 

So, does anyone else walk around with the lens cap off? If I have to put the cap on every time, I expect that I'll be developing a lot of unexposed film.

 

Also, I think that I'm going to need a light meter, since I've always relied on subtle suggestions from my internal meter. What do people think of the Voigtlander shoe mounted light meters? I don't like the thought of carrying a hand-held meter. My pockets are already crammed with cell phones, keys, Ipods and coins.

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Scotto, welcome to the forum. Be careful, or you'll be spending a lot of time here. ;)

 

Can't help on the meter. I have no experience of the Voigtländers.

 

 

In regard to burning a whole in the curtain, don't worry about it.

 

If you put a Leica on a table pointed at the sun and the lens focuses the sun on the curtain, and if you leave it there for a few minutes, it is possible to burn a hole through the curtain. But I've never seen it happen. (Actually, I'm aware of one case where a person burned a hole through the curtain of his SLR. He left the camera pointing toward the sun with a telephoto lens, and the sun burned through in the gap just below the mirror.)

 

I never put a lens cap on when I'm out with a camera, because I want to be ready for a picture. I also never put the camera away without a lens cap. I never put the camera on the ledge behind the rear seat or the one in front of the front seats of a car; if you do that, you'd best put on the lens cap.

 

I don't worry about the sun when I'm out with a camera, except as a lighting element. Handle the camera exactly as you do your Pentax, and you'll do fine.

 

And congratulations on the M3. I hope you soon come to have the same feeling of the 'rightness' of the M camera that I do.

Edited by ho_co
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I also walk around with the lens cap in my pocket

 

If you want to see if a lens can burn a curtain, set the aperture to the minimum and do the old schoolboy magnifying glass and newspaper trick in bright sunlight. I'm not convinced, but can't test here because we haven't seen the sun since 1976.

 

I have a Leica shoe mounted meter on my M2, and it works extremely well and looks right on the camera. I'm sure you've seen one before, but mine is below. The Voigtlanders also work well, but don't look like they belong there.

 

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Edited by andybarton
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If you want to see if a lens can burn a curtain, set the aperture to the minimum and do the old schoolboy magnifying glass and newspaper trick in bright sunlight.

 

Focusing an image of the sun on a dark surface with the aperture wide open will produce a very hot spot.

 

However, in order to do damage to the shutter, the hot spot has to remain for some time at the same place, I fancy. Hence, if you do not let your camera lie where the sun enters the lens, you should be on the safe side.

 

My wife once left a magnifying glass on a window sill. After some days, she complained about a burnt smell in her sewing room. It turned out that the magnifying glass happened to make a smoking hot image of the sun on some fabrics.

 

When I still used to smoke, I occasionally lit my cigarettes with a magnifying glass or camera lens.

 

The German word for the focal length happens to be "Brennweite" - burning distance, BTW.

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I'm new to Leica's but eagerly awaiting the delivery of an M3.

 

I have read a lot of stories about curtains developing holes in them due the sun flashing into the lens. How much of this is true and how long would it take to create a hole?

 

The reason that I ask is that I like to take my cameras with me everywhere I go. I'm not the type that hides his camera under his coat, or keeps it in a Styrofoam case. When I leave my house, the lens cap goes directly in my pocket. I wanted to know if this is going to be a problem, when the camera is hanging over my shoulder.

 

I have been shooting a Pentax DSLR with an M 50/1.7 (which is a bullet-proof setup), but I wanted something wider, smaller, simpler, film, and overall more Leica-ish.

 

So, does anyone else walk around with the lens cap off? If I have to put the cap on every time, I expect that I'll be developing a lot of unexposed film.

 

Also, I think that I'm going to need a light meter, since I've always relied on subtle suggestions from my internal meter. What do people think of the Voigtlander shoe mounted light meters? I don't like the thought of carrying a hand-held meter. My pockets are already crammed with cell phones, keys, Ipods and coins.

 

The answers so far make me think I´m almost alone in having actually seen a Leica with a hole in the shutter curtain (a well-worn M3, in the ´60:es). It was patched, and I never got to learn the exact circumstances, but it was the sun that burned it. So, it can indeed happen.

 

Still, it´s nothing I worry much about. As has been said, the lens must be wide open, and the camera must be left absolutely still for several seconds in a position pointing to the sun. Carrying the camera around on the ready in strong sunlight implies it´s stopped down quite a bit, and you´re moving, too. Just don´t put it on a café table while taking a java (or find a table in the shade...).

 

As for meters: I had the LeicaMeter (shoe-mounted, and coupled to the shutter wheel) for my M2, but never liked it much. Get a good, small, handheld meter, learn to use it, and get accustomed to it. You´ll get better control, and a better feeling for light conditions.

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A small hand meter has a very useful capability: metering incident, i.e. absolute light. This means that you can have total control of highlights. Even when using cameras with built-in meters, I like having a hand meter around for this purpose, very useful in critical lighting.

 

The problem with the classsícal Leicameters is feeding them batteries. They work properly only with the old mercury cells. A zinc-air (Wein) or alkaline cell is not dependable, as they do not give out the very stable current that the meter needs for a reference.

 

The Voigtländer II meter works just fine with my M4. Now if you have some experience with negative film, you don't need a meter much, except indoors. But this one will answer your needs.

 

The old man from the Age of Selenium Meters

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Thanks for the thoughtful comments from everyone. I bought a Leica that already had a bit of patina, because I didn’t want to be afraid of using it. I really couldn’t believe that Leicas were so vulnerable to something as common as the sun. In either case, I had wondered into a forum on some other website and there seemed to be some people worked up about it.

 

About the meter, I guess I’ll be doing more research. Michael, the link was especially helpful. The goal is to get away from using it as much as possible, in the spirit of TOP’s “Leica as a Teacher” post (The Online Photographer: The Leica as Teacher). I think that I’m ruling out the Leica meter as the only thing it has over the Voigtlander is its beautiful looks. That said, the opinions here have made me reconsider a hand-held.

 

Thanks again to everyone.

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Scotto--

Mike Johnston's suggestion is right on the mark. One lens, one body, one year.

 

I learned exposure similarly, though it was 30 years ago.

 

I'd go out with a single lens on any one day, though I would sometimes change lenses from one day to the next, depending on my mood.

 

And I'd take a meter reading on the sunny side of the street when I started out and watch how the light changed; no more readings till the daylight changed.

 

Setting exposure became automatic for me, in the sense that I'd open two stops when I shot the shadow side of the street, and adjust in between according to subject. It worked. I felt in control.

 

Doesn't work any longer for me, because these days my eyeglasses automatically adjust to brightness changes, so I'm no longer in control. :rolleyes:

 

I envy you the learning excursion. :)

 

Keep us posted on how it works.

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Scotto,

 

Welcome. I'm embarrassed to say I burned a hole in my shutter, so I know it can be done--would've been expensive to have repaired, but the camera was still under warranty. And as pop mentioned, it was done at full aperture. All you've got to do is be more conscientious than I was and you'll be just fine.

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Pinholes in the curtains can indeed be caused by leaving the camera in direct sunlight for too long - but in general use I doubt it will happen - It's not something I worry about walking around, but I don't leave the camera sat on a table in the light without the cap on. Pinholes in older cameras can also just be a sign of wear - usually in that case there will be more than one.

 

As for the meter - the Leica meter does have an advantage over the VC meter because it couples to the shutter speed dial, so a little quicker in use I guess. Personally I'd go for a hand held meter which can take incident readings.

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I've yet to have a problem with holes in the curtain. I do use lens caps, but only while the camera is stored. If I'm out for the day taking pictures, the camera is out the whole time with no lens cap. I wouldn't leave it on the dash of your car with no cap for hours. Then again, I wouldn't leave it on the dash of your car with the cap for hours either :)

 

Don't worry about it.

 

The Sekonic 308s is a great meter. I love mine.

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Again, thanks for the responses from everyone. In ended up purchasing a used Sekonic 308. I would have liked something smaller and less digital, but it seemed that there were so many compromises such as low light accuracy and overall reliability. The 308 seems to be well endorsed by users and I'm hoping it will have a "hassle-free" factor that will make up for its size.

 

I rounded out my kit with parcel of HP5 400 and a Voigtlander strap. I'm traveling so, it's going to be a couple weeks until I get to use everything.

 

Another question I had was regarding film scanning. What should I be looking/asking for to get a quality scan? I live in a big city so I'm confident there are capable shops around. I'm not sure if it makes any difference but for my digital work-flow, I do everything in Lightroom.

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  • 5 years later...

Bad luck Peter, and good result getting it repaired so quickly.

 

I suspect burning a hole in the shutter curtain would never have happened to HCB, but it may be something that an older camera is more prone to as the curtain gets 'hairier' with age? And it's a cool camera to set down on a sunny café table while sipping a frappe cappuccino and intercoursing with social media , so I expect the recent renaissance of film to run alongside more stories of spontaneous combustion.

 

Steve

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Peter--

Sorry to hear about the hole-burning incident. It can happen, but it's rare. 

 

Think of how long you used the camera without burning a hole in the shutter! I don't know anyone who caps his lenses when just carrying an M around.

 

Simply be aware of the possibility and don't set the camera down facing the sun, and you'll get plenty more years out of your M3.

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I rarely walk around with anything wider than a 35 so I've not paid much attention to shielding my shutter but on a recent trip to Lisbon using a 28mm, I found myself leaving the aperture at f2 and the focus tab at minimum focus distance if I found myself in a susceptible position.

i think that's the longest sentence I've ever written.

pete

Edited by Stealth3kpl
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Hello Scotto,

 

Welcome to the Forum.

 

One way to make sure that you don't burn a hole in the shutter curtain is simply to make sure that your lens (Always better off with a rigid lens hood on it.) is always pointed away from the Sun when you are not taking photos. Also: Only point the lens in the direction of the Sun for the shortest time necessary when the Sun is in the photo you are taking. Also: Leave the camera on the table with the lens facing away from the Sun while you are enjoying ein unglaublische mittag essen. 

 

Holding the camera in your hand & constantly turning the lens away from the Sun while doing other things becomes a somewhat reflexive habit before too long.

 

Best Regards,

 

Michael

Edited by Michael Geschlecht
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Considering that the reflection of the sun from a building in the City of London famously melted a Jaguar car, the burning of a Leica shutter curtain is easy to imagine!

 

Just take care as said not to leave the camera pointing towards bright sunlight for any prolonged period of time. It's something you become subconsciously aware of as a film M (or Barnack) user. 

Edited by earleygallery
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