Thoroughly Modern MINI

[ddp]

Ah yes...a bit different from the original...but has introduced a new generation to the name.

R9, 180 Summicron, Kodachrome

[lambroving]

Very nice. Like the way you cropped it. That must be some lens. Who carries yours?!

Not too happy that BMW stole it from Rover after they wrecked the car company and even kept the Rover 75 plant in Cowley to build it. The car was entirely designed at Gaydon by Frank Stephenson and his team.

[ddp]

William,

Thanks! While I love what the 180 can do, I have basically liquidated my R system...I find the M really suits my shooting style best when it comes to film these days.

I've seen the rift between classic Mini owners and those who own the new at car shows...it can get quite vitriolic on certain message boards.

The film is Provia...I just realized I erred in my description above!

[lambroving]

Dan,

I imagine you just want a little relief from your DSLR's...

[arthury]

Originally Posted by lambroving

Very nice. Like the way you cropped it. That must be some lens. Who carries yours?!

Not too happy that BMW stole it from Rover after they wrecked the car company and even kept the Rover 75 plant in Cowley to build it. The car was entirely designed at Gaydon by Frank Stephenson and his team.

Let's not get too emotional about the Rover company ... it's owned and "massaged" by Ford ... it's clear that Ford's DNA is already in the LR3 ... and I think it's for the better. Let's not forget that even Rolls Royce Motor is currently owned by BMW.

[arthury]

Daniel,

I love this image ... nice bokeh and really even lighting. I also like your car images in your website ... very attractive.

[stuny]

Dan -

You've very well captured the spirit of the new Mini. Lovely colors, light, selective focus.

[earleygallery]

Originally Posted by arthury

Let's not get too emotional about the Rover company ... it's owned and "massaged" by Ford ... it's clear that Ford's DNA is already in the LR3 ... and I think it's for the better. Let's not forget that even Rolls Royce Motor is currently owned by BMW.

Wrong - Rover was sold by the UK Govt to BMW (for £1 I think). Ford own Land Rover and Jaguar. BMW later sold Rover to the Pheonix consortium who ran out of ideas/money and sold off part of the business to the Chinese before going into receivership. BMW still own the Rover name however, which the Chinese want to buy off them, but they're currently asking for circa £11M, otherwise they'll have to sell their 'Rovers' as something else.

Re the photo, I like the crop/framing - this version of the Mini is soon to be replaced though, so it's no longer thoroughly modern!

[lambroving]

Originally Posted by arthury

Let's not get too emotional about the Rover company ... it's owned and "massaged" by Ford ... it's clear that Ford's DNA is already in the LR3 ... and I think it's for the better. Let's not forget that even Rolls Royce Motor is currently owned by BMW.

Arthur,

There is no Ford in the LR3. Errr..., sorry, forgot the knob on the driver's side mirror. Saw the full-scale mock-up of this rig in 2002 at Gaydon, both interior and exterior. The main Ford DNA is/was on the T-5 line at Solihull which cost Ford $3B. It's sliicker than anything they have in the U.S.

LR2 is a slightly different matter. That platform, i.e. architecture, not chassis as many believe , IS Ford, but contains considerable L-R DNA which was necessary to meet L-R requirements for strength and torsional rigidity. LR2 is consequently better on-road and off than its predecessor. Saw this mock-up at Gaydon in 2004.

Where do people get this stuff??? Moot point anyway since Bill Ford appears to have lost his mind and is selling off PAG anyway due mainly to Jaguar losses which Ford helped to create with the X-Type. Ford management has been really inefficient from where I sit due to Ford corporate culture. Things were much better under BAe except that they failed to re-invest enough of the proceeds. BAe never tinkered with the designs or L-R corporate culture.

As most L-R designs are patented, BMW were paying Ford royalties on some of the designs they pirated from L-R. Something poetic about that! As of 2004, L-R was still stamping most of the body panels in Solihull for the MINI on a fancy German mill which BMW had installed at great cost.

The auto industry is quite a spyder's web these days and most consumers have no concept of reality. They appear to believe auto rags, advertising hype and Consumer Reports, ALL of which are carefully slanted by $$$.

William you´re not gettin tired of talking about the "bad side" of BMW? Hey, that´s modern business. There are even more worse things going on.

btw. I like the shot !

[lambroving]

Originally Posted by earleygallery

Wrong - Rover was sold by the UK Govt to BMW (for £1 I think). Ford own Land Rover and Jaguar. BMW later sold Rover to the Pheonix consortium who ran out of ideas/money and sold off part of the business to the Chinese before going into receivership. BMW still own the Rover name however, which the Chinese want to buy off them, but they're currently asking for circa £11M, otherwise they'll have to sell their 'Rovers' as something else.

James,

BMW bought Rover Group from BAe and Honda's 20% share of Rover Group. BMW managed to take Rover cars from 625,000 units to 235,000 in three years by failing to implement new designs. BMW, after borrowing a huge sum from the Blair Government, fired Mr. P (now Chairman of Audi & Herr Rietzle (sp?), and sold Rover for 10 GBP to John Tower's group so that they (BMW) could leave the country. I'm half surprised that anyone in England would buy a BMW since they never paid back your tax $$$. BMW sold L-R to Ford for 3B Euros because L-R was the only asset BMW had which was worth something.

2007 will see the new New MINI with some BMW parts.

[lambroving]

Originally Posted by agnoo

William you´re not gettin tired of talking about the "bad side" of BMW? Hey, that´s modern business. There are even more worse things going on.

Ron,

Ask Mr. P. about BMW when you photograph him. He is a pretty nice guy and really likes English cars. His uncle was Issigonis, the man who invented the Mini.

BTW, HE was Chairman of BMW when your Z3 was designed...

[arthury]

Originally Posted by lambroving

James,

BMW bought Rover Group from BAe and Honda's 20% share of Rover Group. BMW managed to take Rover cars from 625,000 units to 235,000 in three years by failing to implement new designs. BMW, after borrowing a huge sum from the Blair Government, fired Mr. P (now Chairman of Audi & Herr Rietzle (sp?), and sold Rover for 10 GBP to John Tower's group so that they (BMW) could leave the country. I'm half surprised that anyone in England would buy a BMW since they never paid back your tax $$$. BMW sold L-R to Ford for 3B Euros because L-R was the only asset BMW had which was worth something.

2007 will see the new New MINI with some BMW parts.

You're quite right ... Rover is part of the Premier Automotive Group, which is a division of Ford.

About the LR3, didn't Ford take out the M62 BMW engine and replaced it with a AJ-V8 engine, which is now shared across other Ford vehicles? As such, we know for sure that the engine of the LR3 is not a LandRover nor a BMW engine.

[albertwang]

The picture kicks buttocks. I really dig... ya know?

[fotografr]

Originally Posted by lambroving

The auto industry is quite a spyder's web these days and most consumers have no concept of reality. They appear to believe auto rags, advertising hype and Consumer Reports, ALL of which are carefully slanted by $$$.

Actually, that's not true. Consumer Reports is published by Consumers Union and CU accepts no outside advertising, no free test samples, and has no agenda other than the interests of consumers. CU supports itself through the sale of information products and services, individual contributions, and a few noncommercial grants.

My father, now retired, was a top executive with a multi-national corporation whose products were often tested and sometimes slammed by Consumer Reports. Whenever this happened, he would go on a rant about how the tests were biased and paid for by companies with competing products. Of course, he never could provide evidence for this and even though I would read him statements like the one above, he just couldn't accept that any negative review of one of his products wasn't somehow paid for by the competetion.

[fotografr]

William is at work and can't post a reply to my comments, so he emailed me to ask if I might post his response for him. Here it is:

"There is/was an auto editor at CR in 1994 who consistently slammed our products for several years without cause because he had not been invited to "La Ruta Maya" in Belize with the automotive press. Charlie Hughes, then MD of LRNA finally got the Managing Editor of CR to have him print a retraction. This of course ended up on the back pages, and within months, this twit was right back to his old tricks.

These people can be manipulated. It's also possible at minimal cost to manipulate ALG, i.e. the bank actuaries for lease residuals. LRNA knew how to do it with subtlety and flair. I appears that Ford is clueless.

Believe me, money talks in one way or another. CR is probably a good place to look for a toaster...

Don't even get me started on the U.S. automotive press. I used to host and instruct those people. Would you like to know what they like to drink and eat? "

William

[elansprint72]

"Wrong - Rover was sold by the UK Govt to BMW (for £1 I think)."

WRONG! Rover was sold by Bae Systems to BMW for a not inconsiderable sum, it was then sold for £1 in a "management buy-out" to a bunch of crooks who tooks millions out of the company and sold it on to the Chinese (allegedly ); this is currently the subject of investigation by the Customs and IR Service!
Bae Systems is the former aerospace company British Aerospace, which was "privatised" (given away to her friends) by Thatcher's government, defrauding the owners (me + 25 million other taxpayers) of the capital value and revenue from the company (which we had subsidised through our taxes for years), Bae Systems, in turn, was given (another criminal robbery) the remnants of Britsh Leyland cars, another publicly owned corporation. Not a very sanitary piece of history, unfortunately.

I understand that the new, new Mini does not now have a Brazillian engine and is quite a bit better packaged then the previous model.

Pete.

[ddp]

Thanks all for your comments...

And of course, the 2007 MINI is sparking debates amongst the owners of the 2002 design. Many feel it's getting larger and bemoan the loss of the supercharger. Ah, such is life.

[lambroving]

Originally Posted by arthury

You're quite right ... Rover is part of the Premier Automotive Group, which is a division of Ford.

About the LR3, didn't Ford take out the M62 BMW engine and replaced it with a AJ-V8 engine, which is now shared across other Ford vehicles? As such, we know for sure that the engine of the LR3 is not a LandRover nor a BMW engine.

Arthur,

The M-62 was barely adequate for us as nothing Bosch could do with the tuning could quite give it adequate torque for towing or off-road work. It IS also rather "busy" and unrefined. Even the old Land Rover 4.6 was quieter, smoother, and had better low end although it was a bit short on BHP for a 5,350 lb. curb weight vehicle with a GVWR of 6,600+.

The 4.4 we are using now is a Cosworth design, specifically for us,. based upon the 4.2 Cosworth did for Jag. Our accessories are quite a bit different and the 4.4 would never fit in a Jag. It is more powerful, has great low end torque and is very refined, SO refined that cabin noise is a full 50% lower in the 2006 Range Rover with a few other NVH mods. The engine is manufactured in a Jag plant for us because they have the capacity and the logistics are good, i.e 30 miles by direct rail link.

Did Ford pay Cosworth for the design? Yes. Does Land Rover pay Jag for the engines? Yes. Is the engine a Ford design? Certainly not. Nothing in Ford's engine range was judged either by Ford or Land Rover to be sufficiently refined for our application.

You been talking to Jamie Kitman again?!

[elansprint72]

Didn't Ford buy Cosworth a while ago?

Pete.